Got to love this place.....

[8541Hawk]

Thanks for having a nice forum that does just go straight to personal attacks when folks have different opinions.

Carry on

[E.Marquez]

Thanks for having a nice forum that does just go straight to personal attacks when folks have different opinions.

Carry on

LOL.. so it is a personal attack when someone suggest what you posted is factually wrong?
Its not an opinion, it's math.

8541Hawk posted

Well you can go -1 in the front or +2 in the rear but anymore than that and you can just downshift one gear in the trans and have the same ratios as stock, so it has never made any sense to go that low to me.

Also when you start messing with gearing, you also change the wheel base of the bike which means you will also need to go through your suspension settings.

I have tried the alternate gearing and have gone back to stock as it works the best all around IMHO.

I stated that was not correct and showed you the math ..I never mentioned YOUR opinion other than to say, we should discuss the facts of it,
I stated

16/41 one gear lower is NOT the same as 15/43

http://www.gearingcommander.com/

Second: How do you change to gear zero? (one gear lower than 1st)

We get it, some do not prefer the final drive ratios provided by going -1+2 ... but some do.... based on how and where they ride.. thats not wrong, any more than choosing stock gearing.. Its just what the rider prefers.
So long as FACTS and actual riding observations are being discussed and not pulled from the behind guess are being used to make a adult educated decision..there is no wrong gearing..just what works for you.

and

Changing the gearing only has effect on the wheel base, if you choose to be lazy and not adjust the chain length to put the rear axle back in the range you want (had)....

I'd happily prove (again, as I have in the past) that most if not all street riders are unable to observe a difference in 5-25 mm wheelbase difference caused by adjusting the rear wheel fore / aft to adjust the chain slack.

10 repetition in a blind test, and I have yet to find a street rider that can correctly state where the rear axle was positioned, fore or aft in a 25mm range 8 of 10 times.. I've challenged and won this bet 7 times. Thats not scientific proof, nor is it covering all riders..Just a reasonable educated guess indicating most street riders will never notice a difference in wheel base change from just adjusting the chain or changing gearing and adjusting the chain while using the same OEM length chain.


Having never tested the idea and observation some will still claim they can tell.. .... Yup, heard that before too,,, pays your money, take the challenge... come be #8. Im sure some can tell.. lets see theres Marquez, Rossi, Code, Chandler, Roberts, and a few hundred thousand other talented racers.. but Johnny rider on the street is not likely to be one of them.

If being shown you are wrong is a personal attack, not sure what I can do.. Would you prefer everyone just always agree with what you post even when it's wrong?

Thats not a personal attack, just discussion you take personally.

[StormingHonda]

Thanks for having a nice forum that does just go straight to personal attacks when folks have different opinions.

Carry on

To be fair this forum in my Experience is actually very civilised compared to a lot of others, you should try the HD forums ( yes the american HD forum ) and watch the stick beating you get when you disagree with someone.

[8541Hawk]

Funny how I feel stalked at times.......

Here is a very good example of what I am talking about since we got a cut and past fest that missed the point.
In fact if that would have been the reply I would have no problem explaining my side and why I have come to the conclusions that I have.

Instead this is thrown in as a "closing" statement:

"So long as FACTS and actual riding observations are being discussed and not pulled from the behind guess are being used to make a adult educated decision there is no wrong gearing..just what works for you."

I don't know about you but to me I see this as:

a) I guess if I'm not using facts I'm just making it up
b) Clarified I'm just making sh1t up with the not pulled from the behind (or out of your butt) and must use actually riding observations, which I guess I have never done, just lied about it.
c) I must not make adult decisions per a & b

As the rest of your post was directed at me. I took this as directed at me also.

Am I wrong for thinking that?

Am I wrong for thinking that a forum where even the Mods feel the need to make those kind of digs instead of having a adult discussion is just kind of sad.

Like I said got to love this place...... sorry for the drama fest.....

[MGoBlue]

Question is, why exactly did you bring this drama fest over here?

[E.Marquez]

OK we will take this to a Tech level.. and not personal

8541Hawk posted

Well you can go -1 in the front or +2 in the rear but anymore than that and you can just downshift one gear in the trans and have the same ratios as stock, so it has never made any sense to go that low to me.

I stated

16/41 one gear lower is NOT the same as 15/43

http://www.gearingcommander.com/

For those that do not already know this to be true, feel free to punch in the SH transmission gears, tire size and final drive ratios
8541Hawk Did I mis read your post somehow? Did you not post what I quoted?

8541Hawk posted

Also when you start messing with gearing, you also change the wheel base of the bike which means you will also need to go through your suspension settings.

As pointed out, your statement is only correct if the user does not alter the chain length to bring the axle position back to where it was before the sprocket swap. There is NO reason to or requirement for altering the wheelbase for just a sprocket swap, unless you choose NOT to adjust the chain length. I suppose there are many riders that don't understand that or choose to alter the wheelbase, never the less, the wheelbase changinging is NOT a required alteration.

Finally, are you up for the challenge? closed course.. 10 laps, I will adjust the axle in one of 4 positions fore, middle front, middle rear and aft in a range common for adjusting the chain over it's life, you ride a lap and tell me what position the axle is in? See if you can tell me accurately what position the axle is in.

[Stephan]

For those that do not already know this to be true, feel free to punch in the SH transmission gears, tire size and final drive ratios

for 5th and 6th gear Mike´s statement is 100% true. Personally I find this thread here useless from the beginning, though you both guys write usually interesting and useful things.

[E.Marquez]

For those that do not already know this to be true, feel free to punch in the SH transmission gears, tire size and final drive ratios

for 5th and 6th gear Mike´s statement is 100% true. Personally I find this thread here useless from the beginning, though you both guys write usually interesting and useful things.

Good point, I'll concede partially correct. And yet not the same in all gears.. so just "dropping one gear" is not the same as changing the gearing.
Which is not the right choice for all (maybe even most) The point is, changing the final drive gearing is a change over all, and is "right" for some... absolute statements that it is a "useless" are simply not true. To each his own, build your ride to fit YOU.

As for the usefulness of the thread... I did not see the need to start the topic, so You'll have to ask Mike why he felt the need to post something in this forum where he knows I am a member of, where he knows I would see the post and where he knows i would respond to his faux rage.|
Im happy to let it drop.

[StormingHonda]

[fabiostar]

[Pete.L]

Personally I find this thread here useless from the beginning, though you both guys write usually interesting and useful things.

+1
Really Fellas??? I know we all get a bit pi$$ed off occasionally and need to vent but you are both better than this.
Give it a rest and start again with something new

Pete.l

[NZSpokes]

I will pick up on the axle point.

It makes a huge difference. From front to back of the slots is a 1 to 2 complete spring rate differences for a start. Will effect turn in feel and straight line stability. This happens through swingarm angle change, wheel base and rear ride height.

Can be the difference between a wayward bike and a planted feeling one.

[VTRDark]

What;s going on here then. Argh a lovely example of a forum self policing and keeping the peace. That's what makes this forum a special place.

Sometimes we have to agree to disagree.

(:-})

[sirch345]

Lets move on now guys. You've had your say, so lets leave it at that,

Chris.

[StormingHonda]

What;s going on here then. Argh a lovely example of a forum self policing and keeping the peace. That's what makes this forum a special place.

Sometimes we have to agree to disagree.

(:-})

Sorry Carl I absolutely disagree with you, you are wrong, totally wrong.