From 107 to 126

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freeridenick
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From 107 to 126

Post by freeridenick » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:23 pm

I know this has been done many times before (lloydie; tony.mon; mik_str, to name a few) but not by me. I never had a bike as a kid, too scared of my Mum, so I've never messed about with them like most of you. Having rebuilt one Firestorm from parts it turns out they are easier to play with than I thought. Shame that one had a duff engine but breaking it provided the funds for the one I've been riding for the last year or so, and that's the one I'm now venturing deeper into and attempting my first engine rebuild.

The bike was Dyno'ed at 107bhp as it stands: stock heads and internals; DynoJet kit; DNA filter; WRP cans on stock headers. Finding some Yoshi stage 1 cams in the Summer set me off collecting parts to go for as close to full stage 1 as I can get whilst spending as little as I can. Roger has breathed on the heads for me and they'll go with the mods below. The engine is out and in pieces with the barrels off to be checked for tolerance and honing, assuming they are good, tomorrow. All being well the rebuild will start next week with fresh bearings and bits as required. With any luck it'll all be back together in time for a track day in March.

Yoshi stage 1 cams
Ported and gas flowed heads (new seals and re-cut valve seats)
JE 11.5:1 high compression pistons
CBR 600 fuel pump
RC51 oil cooler
Airbox mods (all the usual ones)
Lightened flywheel.

Other general bike mods
HRC 1/6th throttle tube (no return cable)
CBR 600 Calipers and MC
PFM cast iron discs
Braced swingarm
Braced frame - maybe
Sexy lowers from Stephan if I can afford them
I might actually get around to painting it too.
Last edited by freeridenick on Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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podman
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Re: From 107 to xxx

Post by podman » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:42 pm

I hope the build has no drama for you mate, look forward to hearing about the end result, what are you expecting it to be in the region of when its all done & set up ?

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freeridenick
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Re: From 107 to xxx

Post by freeridenick » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:55 pm

podman wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:42 pm
I hope the build has no drama for you mate, look forward to hearing about the end result, what are you expecting it to be in the region of when its all done & set up ?
Cheers.

If I get 115 I'll be happy, especially with a a bucket load more mid-range. I'm hoping for 2-3 for each mod so the heads, cams, pistons would give 6 plus another couple from a currently lean setup making 8 hence the 115.

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Stephan
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Re: From 107 to xxx

Post by Stephan » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:06 pm

Good luck with the built, it seems to me you have pretty good chance to have good result, especially if you are in touch with Roger (my correspondence with him is long enough for smaller book, great man). Regarding the lowers, just let me know, I am currently changing the job and it should be a bit easier to get it, we will check the actual price too, in case it happens, I am not going to profit on it ...
I believe you will get something about 120 bhp with stock airbox and more with proper airbox mod.

One question, what are usual airbox mods for you?

I am just in stage of tuning open airbox where fuel pump is needed too, i will go for facet 40171 instead of usual one like cbr600. Thanks to Varastorm who had led me this way.
http://www.ktm950.info/how/Orange%20Gar ... stall.html

Btw, if you will be in need of stronger carb slide springs, let me know, I have some spare in two versions. The stronger one is not tested yet for function ...

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fabiostar
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Re: From 107 to xxx

Post by fabiostar » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:21 pm

its never gona work so sell those discs lol :lol: .

keep us updated nick, this is sounding well proper :clap: :clap:
the older i get,the faster i was :lol:

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tony.mon
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Re: From 107 to xxx

Post by tony.mon » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:34 pm

With proper head porting, 120 should be easily reached, but leave a bit in the budget for jetting, as with these changes you will not get it running right all the way through without a few runs on the dyno.

I did, but then switched to lambda sensors in both downpipes and a realtime display so I could tune on the fly using jetting but also a Flo-commander on the main jet circuit.
But that lot probably cost more than the dyno sessions would have.......

Welcome to the fun end of playing with engines, you won't regret it when it's done. Just during the build.....

One warning, though, after a while, 120 won't be enough, and that way you can end up chasing ever more fragile states of tune.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.

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Stephan
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Re: From 107 to xxx

Post by Stephan » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:13 pm

Just remember that peak bhp itself is just number. While I got 122 bhp with stock airbox, I could not be satisfied with lack of power in midrange where proper tuned stock engine performs better, and this can be improved. Worse is, i have it measured, dyno ass told me many times bike is running fine. Long way, but fun.

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popkat
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Re: From 107 to xxx

Post by popkat » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:24 pm

In my opinion the best track mod would be a slipper clutch, the storm doesn't cope well with aggressive downchanges. I think the slipper would be better than 10 or so extra HP, with better lap times.. although both together should make it a lot of fun.



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http://www.bidefordmotorcycles.co.uk
2014 CRMC Post classic Superbike champion.
2014 CRMC Post classic senior production champion. On a Suzuki Katana 1100
My bikes, Firestorm, Yamaha MT10SP, 2 x Honda RC24 road and race, Popup Katana and a some XJ600's

StuartWags
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Re: From 107 to xxx

Post by StuartWags » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:43 am

do you have an ignition advancer?

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freeridenick
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Re: From 107 to xxx

Post by freeridenick » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:49 am

The usual airbox mods will be rerouting the crank breather pipes to outside and probably removing the carb breathers and filling them in like Tony and Lloydie did. I've got a cut down lid to try the open airbox plus various filters, loads of jets and both Dynojet and FP needles. If there are others I'll be interested to hear them.

I've got some budget saved for the Dyno and I'll be looking to make the best of the mid-range and torque rather than peak power. I've got a long way to go before 120 is too little.

I'd like a slipper clutch but man they are expensive. I know what you mean though Popkat, I find myself using a road riding tip I picked up from a Cop to help match the revs changing down.

I've not got an ignition advancer Stu. I had another chat with Roger last night and he reckoned they weren't worth it. His maps ended up with advance then retardation higher up the revs. That means a new ECU which I can't stretch to.

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fabiostar
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Re: From 107 to xxx

Post by fabiostar » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:11 am

Nick i pickled my own head last year with airboxs and lids :lol: ...these dam carbs are picky buggers once you move to far away from what Honda made.. the more options i tried. drilled lid,removed lid,even snorkel changes always seemed to kill the response in the midrange for me.

new carbs? im not sure the benefits are worth the outlay of FCR/mori items.. then that open up the can of worms of ramair :roll: .with the engine i got last year iv went full circle and ended up back were i started.. dyno jetted carbs,K&N filter,gutted box (pipes removed) alloy intake stacks..

iv also spent the winter talking to folk who have been involved with tuned vtrs from years ago and bhp figures lets say vary. to be honest users/owners some times pop on glasses with a slight rose tint in them lol :silent:

what sorta ecu,s are out there for them? god knows?
the older i get,the faster i was :lol:

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freeridenick
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Re: From 107 to xxx

Post by freeridenick » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:29 am

fabiostar wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:11 am

what sorta ecu,s are out there for them? god knows?
There's info on this very forum Fabio.

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fabiostar
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Re: From 107 to xxx

Post by fabiostar » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:10 pm

freeridenick wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:29 am
fabiostar wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:11 am

what sorta ecu,s are out there for them? god knows?
There's info on this very forum Fabio.

jesus wept that scared me even reading that..i was lost 2 lines into it :eek2 :eek2
the older i get,the faster i was :lol:

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Stephan
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Re: From 107 to xxx

Post by Stephan » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:06 pm

I disposed crank breather tubes too using pod filters out of airbox, and was surprised how much jetting changed. Didnt touch carb breathers, as I dont think it worth all the hassle. At least rerouting carb breathers makes airbox instalation much easier. You will appreciate that during jetting.

I agree new ecu or ignition advancer is not must, not much difference if any.

Regarding filter and needles, I see that my attempts with other configurations were lost of time, KN and DJ needles with oem two slide holes are the best, you can mix it with keihin jets.

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freeridenick
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Re: From 107 to xxx

Post by freeridenick » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:17 pm

Cases are back from being checked for tolerance and honed. The good news is the bores are good and round and they've matched the pistons to the bores for best fit - no front or rear on the JEs.

Bad news is I need new rings.

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