Rattly engine noise

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Cadbury64
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Rattly engine noise

Post by Cadbury64 »

My VTR has a quite rattly idle, and I suspect the clutch and/or the oil or water pump drive chains are the source. I have manual CCTs and they are all correctly adjusted, and tweaking them up or down does not change the noise. I'm fairly sure the noise originates from the clutch cover area.

The bike has nearly 80000km, I've got the clutch out at present for a bit of a look. The clutch plates have a little bit of play in their grooves but the grooves themselves are in good smooth shape, and the friction discs and steels are in good shape (clutch works great). The split gears driving the clutch are correctly tensioned.

What I do notice is the shock absorbing springs in the back of the clutch outer are a loose fit. I can shake the clutch outer and get a decent rattle. Are they all like that? Mine are also a range of different colours:
Image

Also the water pump and oil pump chains are pretty sloppy.

Image

Any suggestions?
2017 MT-10SP, 2019 Vespa Primavera 150
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sirch345
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Re: Rattly engine noise

Post by sirch345 »

I can't see anything there wrong. I've just had my clutch apart ( viewtopic.php?f=7&t=41342&start=15#p450971 ) strangely enough like you also looking for an Odd Noise although different than what you are looking for. Some of the springs were loose like yours, although I'm not sure if they all were, someone else may be able to confirm that?
The different colour of the springs are the different tensions I would guess.

With the clutch basket only fitted to the main shaft can you tell if the rivets are loose that hold the gear wheel with the springs in it to the basket :?: On mine (31,000 miles) I could turn the clutch basket with a little force just enough to take up the slack in the springs (so yes they must have all been loose :lol: ) that's without the gear wheel turning. If the rivets are badly worn it would be noticeable I'm sure and the basket would move very easily backwards and forwards,

Chris.
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VTRDark
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Re: Rattly engine noise

Post by VTRDark »

They are all a bit loose. Surprisingly loose when you open the cover and get in there. My thinking is that with heat they tension up somewhat.
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Cadbury64
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Re: Rattly engine noise

Post by Cadbury64 »

Thanks for the responses. It was reassuring to open the engine up and not be confronted by any shrapnel or obvious signs of woe. I did pull the clutch out about 10,000km ago and replaced the needle bearing and sleeve as there was some freeplay there before. I am thinking I might buy a new oil pump chain as the current one is pretty sloppy and I can imagine it snatching and making a rattling sound, and add some new friction discs for good measure.
2017 MT-10SP, 2019 Vespa Primavera 150
tony.mon
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Re: Rattly engine noise

Post by tony.mon »

The oil pump chain is always rattly and flapping around, and I suspect that a new one would be no better.
They run very little load and are constantly lubricated so I wouldn't expect any significant wear.
But it won't cost much to try it.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
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Cadbury64
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Re: Rattly engine noise

Post by Cadbury64 »

Thanks Tony, that was the same logic that I was employing. I suspect most of the noise I hear is from the clutch basket damper mechanism, but I'm too cheap to buy a new basket and I can't be sure a used one on eBay will be better than what I have.
2017 MT-10SP, 2019 Vespa Primavera 150
tony.mon
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Re: Rattly engine noise

Post by tony.mon »

I have lots of spare baskets and other clutch parts so will have a look to see if I can make one up with no play.
It may be worth measuring the springs to see if they have shrunk.
The free length should be in Haynes.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
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fabiostar
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Re: Rattly engine noise

Post by fabiostar »

bit of a hijack but clutch related.. since putting new plates and hd springs in mine its a complete tw@ to get into neutral :D . nearly like the clutch is dragging. i had a peep and my primary and oil pump chains are a tad loose like yours.. two masters,two slaves and its still a tw@ of a thing to find nautral :redface
the older i get,the faster i was :lol:
tony.mon
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Re: Rattly engine noise

Post by tony.mon »

fabiostar wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:06 pm bit of a hijack but clutch related.. since putting new plates and hd springs in mine its a complete tw@ to get into neutral :D . nearly like the clutch is dragging. i had a peep and my primary and oil pump chains are a tad loose like yours.. two masters,two slaves and its still a tw@ of a thing to find nautral :redface
Bleed the clutch line, you still have air in it.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
fulviogsx
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Re: Rattly engine noise

Post by fulviogsx »

Cadbury64 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:49 pm Thanks Tony, that was the same logic that I was employing. I suspect most of the noise I hear is from the clutch basket damper mechanism, but I'm too cheap to buy a new basket and I can't be sure a used one on eBay will be better than what I have.
did you fix it?may be my vtr is affcted by the same pain with 14k on the clock
fulviogsx
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Re: Rattly engine noise

Post by fulviogsx »

fulviogsx wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:48 pm
Cadbury64 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:49 pm Thanks Tony, that was the same logic that I was employing. I suspect most of the noise I hear is from the clutch basket damper mechanism, but I'm too cheap to buy a new basket and I can't be sure a used one on eBay will be better than what I have.
did you fix it?may be my vtr is affcted by the same pain with 14k on the clock
or better:
sometime ( not always, sometimes yes, sometimes no) I can heard noise coming from the clutch zone. this noise is not the tipical rattle, but ( just to let you understand) is similar to a rod-bushing broken:it bits with the rpm of the engine, and at 4/5000 rpm it seems disappearing.
when the noise appears, it is present both with the clutch pulled in and out.
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Cadbury64
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Re: Rattly engine noise

Post by Cadbury64 »

Nope, not fixed. I can't see anything amiss inside the clutch cover aside from loose clutch damper springs, and some slack in the oil and water pump chains. The noise I have is also present clutch in and out, and present at most low rpms, so I don't think it is the clutch discs, and definitely not the cam chains. I have in the past replaced the clutch bearing and bushing so it is not that either. I've decided that I will leave it for now unless it gets much worse. I also put my loud cans back on which may be the best fix of all...
2017 MT-10SP, 2019 Vespa Primavera 150
fulviogsx
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Re: Rattly engine noise

Post by fulviogsx »

it seems our problem is very similar. Is it yours a constant problem or may appear/desappear?about mine it usual appears after warming the engine (tipically immediately after the first time you push little hard the engine).it stays with me some kilometres, and may be later desappear for lots of kilometres(may be 30/40). yesterday i tried to heard with patience it in my workshop, but nothing appeared. So my ideas is it needs the involvement of the transmission (Clutches, gear sprocket and so on) to produce it again.
My oil inside is a 15w50 motul 5100 seemi synthetic, with 4000 km on it
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Cadbury64
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Re: Rattly engine noise

Post by Cadbury64 »

This is what my bike sounds like.
2017 MT-10SP, 2019 Vespa Primavera 150
fulviogsx
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Re: Rattly engine noise

Post by fulviogsx »

Cadbury64 wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:44 pm This is what my bike sounds like.
Video not available
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