Freeridenick

Just post charts and set up details.
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freeridenick
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Freeridenick

Post by freeridenick » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:43 pm

Initial chart below. All I wanted from this first Dyno session was to know the fueling was OK. The first set of runs produced the red line and it was way too rich on the main jets, a bit rich on the needle and lean on the pilots. Smaller mains in, half a turn out on the fuel screws and it gained 1bph and 1 ft-lb torque max values but 1 or 2 of each in places through the rest of the range. Plus max power slightly later and torque tailing off later

Fueling is still lean below 3k but I'm not worried about that for the use it's getting. It's still rich in the mid-range and top end but it's safe so I'll run it in as it is. I'll then go down a size on the mains and I'll have worked out how it's riding and what to play with next. Given the relatively low revs for peak power there's more there with smaller mains and maybe the lower down torque can be improved. But given the shape of the curves I'm very happy.

AIRBOX - std lid and snorkle with removed carb and crankcase breathers, MWR filter (no plate), 2 x stock short stacks
EXHAUST - stock header with WRP cans and link pipes
FRONT CARB - 185 FP main, DJ needle 4th clip from top, 48s pilot, 2.5 out on fuel screw, two-hole slide
REAR CARB - 182 FP main, DJ needle 4th clip from top plu 1mm washer, 50 pilot, 2.75 out on fuel screw, 2-hole slide
OTHER BITS -
TPS set to 500
stick coils
light flywheel
JE 11.5:1 pistons
Yoshi sgt1 cams
Heads ported and flowed by Roger
Intake valves +1mm
Exhaust valves +0.5mm
CBR fuel pump

nick firestom rpm.jpg
Initial Dyno run

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popkat
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Re: Freeridenick

Post by popkat » Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:26 pm

That's a weird graph, the dip at 5k isn't on the torque curve ??.

Talking of the dip I don't think you'll pull I out with needles, I reckon the exhaust system would be the culprit.. would be interesting to see it run with a full Akro or Yoshi.. bigger bore downpipes could help with more volume.



.
http://www.bidefordmotorcycles.co.uk
2014 CRMC Post classic Superbike champion.
2014 CRMC Post classic senior production champion. On a Suzuki Katana 1100
My bikes, Firestorm, Yamaha MT10SP, 2 x Honda RC24 road and race, Popup Katana and a some XJ600's

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freeridenick
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Re: Freeridenick

Post by freeridenick » Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:17 pm

popkat wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:26 pm
That's a weird graph, the dip at 5k isn't on the torque curve ??.

Talking of the dip I don't think you'll pull I out with needles, I reckon the exhaust system would be the culprit.. would be interesting to see it run with a full Akro or Yoshi.. bigger bore downpipes could help with more volume.
.
I've said much the same on the build thread so confirmation for that line of thinking is good. With smaller mains the top end was better but flat when I would expect it to keep climbing. Initially I thought making it leaner would sort the top end but it didn't with reduced mains on the blue graph it just pushed the peak power further up the revs. So going leaner again when it's run in will more than likely do the same.

I'm going to investigate exhaust builders locally, and nationally if there are none around me, and see what they can offer. The more I think about it the more I reckon that at those revs it just can't move enough gas.

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popkat
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Re: Freeridenick

Post by popkat » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:21 pm

freeridenick wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:17 pm
popkat wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:26 pm
That's a weird graph, the dip at 5k isn't on the torque curve ??.

Talking of the dip I don't think you'll pull I out with needles, I reckon the exhaust system would be the culprit.. would be interesting to see it run with a full Akro or Yoshi.. bigger bore downpipes could help with more volume.
.
I've said much the same on the build thread so confirmation for that line of thinking is good. With smaller mains the top end was better but flat when I would expect it to keep climbing. Initially I thought making it leaner would sort the top end but it didn't with reduced mains on the blue graph it just pushed the peak power further up the revs. So going leaner again when it's run in will more than likely do the same.

I'm going to investigate exhaust builders locally, and nationally if there are none around me, and see what they can offer. The more I think about it the more I reckon that at those revs it just can't move enough gas.
Overall though I think it's all very good, just depends on how far you want to go with perfecting it, the bike I'm sure will ride really well. The slight jaggedness at the top end is most probably the bellmouths/stacks and could be smoothed with tuning the lengths. Very time consuming for the perfect power curve, if it performs well on the road and track then that's what counts and no need to fiddle further.
My VFR has a big hole at 5.5-6.5k but as longs as I'm not down at those revs it doesn't matter, as it's a track bike it's not worth me trying to fill it as it would require a different exhaust configuration.


.
http://www.bidefordmotorcycles.co.uk
2014 CRMC Post classic Superbike champion.
2014 CRMC Post classic senior production champion. On a Suzuki Katana 1100
My bikes, Firestorm, Yamaha MT10SP, 2 x Honda RC24 road and race, Popup Katana and a some XJ600's

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freeridenick
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Location: Derbyshire

Re: Freeridenick

Post by freeridenick » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:42 pm

popkat wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:21 pm
... as it's a track bike it's not worth me trying to fill it as it would require a different exhaust configuration
.
Fair comment that. There's plenty for me to go at between 5 and 9k with a few extra revs if needed. That's one of the reasons I left it where it is. I might well be better off trying to improve the mid-range for my riding style.

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VTRDark
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Re: Freeridenick

Post by VTRDark » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:20 pm

You have got some very tasty results there. They seem to always dip around 4 to 5. You must be really happy with that and I bet it rides like a diffrent bike.
==============================Enter the Darkside

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freeridenick
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Re: Freeridenick

Post by freeridenick » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:55 am

I didn't bother with the AFR chart as it's useless. A guy on the Facebook page asked about it and I figure there's some expertise here that could help.

I'm not fussed about the lean pilots yet but the rich curve after the needles come in goes lean off the scale as it gets further up the revs. It clearly wasn't lean - soot on the sensor and you could smell the fuel on the first run. That was with 180/185 Dynojet mains.

Going down to the 182/185 FP mains made it better but the sensor was still getting knocked out. Time to change the oil and keep running it in. Has anyone seen this before though?

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Stephan
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Re: Freeridenick

Post by Stephan » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:31 pm

Nice result. To be true, i haven't seen better than this, considering top power.

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tony.mon
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Re: Freeridenick

Post by tony.mon » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:44 pm

You may find that you can go down a fair bit more with the mains- I ended up with 172 and 175. It's counter-intuitive as more power usually requires bigger mains, but that's what I found. If you can smell fuel it's too rich- the AF trace would tell you this.
It's worth a try to see if smaller mains will give you the extended top end power you
re looking for- it's a cheap way to find out.

Re pipes, one option that would be quick and easy to try so that you could find out without paying out for an expensive set of headers is this:

Take a std set, angle grind a strip out of the top section all the way from the top clamp to the collector y piece- just one cutting disc width wide.
Open the gap up, and weld in a slightly wider strip.Ideally tack while still on the bike so that it doesn't distort much.
It won't be pretty or work very well, but it would dhow whether your theory is right without much expense.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.

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fabiostar
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Re: Freeridenick

Post by fabiostar » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:53 pm

impressive results nick :thumbup: :thumbup:
the older i get,the faster i was :lol:

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freeridenick
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Re: Freeridenick

Post by freeridenick » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:12 pm

After riding at Oulton the fuelling was clearly off. Drive was good all the way to the redline but it was lean on small throttle openings - lots of popping and a bit jerky - which didn't feel great on the way into Island

Booked in with Andy at Junction 33 and we spent four hours sorting it out so now I have two great setups, one with the lid and snorkel on the airbox and the other without the lid. I wanted the lidless setup because the bracing in the frame I'm swapping to covers the area where the snorkel is fed from.

Below is the initial setup against the open lid. I'd swapped the exhaust for the Mori system which helped with the riceness from the last session. And the rings have obviously seated now as there was hardly any smoking. Given the 126 reading on the other dyno is now 121 it would be over 130bhp if I was chasing numbers :whatever. The leanness low down has gone and the slight dip between 5k and 6k too. The torque curve is much flatter at that point too.
before and after Junt33-page-001.jpg
Below is the open and close lid comparison. With the lid on the fuelling is bob on. Without the lid the mains are larger and the needle richer but still a little lean past 7k. Andy was happy to leave it there in terms of Dyno runs but suggested going up one size front and rear when I next take it apart.
open and closed airbox - Junt33-page-001.jpg

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Stephan
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Re: Freeridenick

Post by Stephan » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:59 pm

Great result Nick. While my top end power can be similar (around 122 bhp with std airbox confirmed on 3 dynos), and current open airbox seems much stronger, my midrange is nowhere near to you. Last time I found front choke is not working properly, hope it helps a little.

Are you running oem slide springs?

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freeridenick
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Re: Freeridenick

Post by freeridenick » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:54 pm

Stephan wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:59 pm

Are you running oem slide springs?
Yes. Std springs and two-hole slides. I think the larger valves are making a big difference.

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