mind at ease

[fabiostar]

ok folks heres the story. my last bike ,a zx7r are known for carb issues that i got sorted. so thinks me il get a vtr.always fancied one and the big H done make bad bikes...

and iv spent the last week reading about regulators and cam chains exploding ? whats the craic with hondas atempt at cct? do they work at all?

slightly worried to say the least

[8541Hawk]

There are a couple of "rules" to follow with them but they can work just fine...... I'm rolling up on 100K miles on my bike, all put on by me and all with auto CCTs......

[fabiostar]

thank god for that ,i was starting to worry what id bought

[8541Hawk]

I will also say that on a new to you VTR..... always change out the CCTs as you have no idea what has been done to them in the past....which does mean they can go bang.
I'm just saying that they can work fine if taken care of.

[VTRDark]

8541hawk is in the minority on this one. Not many people will rely on running standard tensioners without any preventative measure.

CCT's can go at any time, it's a gamble!

Some links regarding the Cam Chain Tensioners (CCT's)

You can either go for the stop mod http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 31&t=19416
Which is the Honda auto CCT's that are converted to a fail safe. So when/if it fails, it don't send the valves crashing into the pistons.

Or

You go for the full manual conversion, your options are here
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 16&t=22720

Then with regards to fitting View Topic
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8326

Yes you could just keep the Honda ones as is, but you best change them for new ones on a regular interval and don't leave the bike running on the sidestand for too long. Oh and don't pull too many wheelies. Mind you wheelies are not good for the bike either way. But in all honesty your best to do a stop mod on them.

http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... er+failure

http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... re#p247126

As for the R/R it's a common issue with loads of bikes that run the older style R/R's, but more so with the unfinned type that the older VTR has. It's no biggy though and I wouldn't be too concerned about it. But best to change it at some stage.

Other than the CCT's and the R/R these bike are very solid and reliable. That's the only issue they have really.

(:-})

[8541Hawk]

8541hawk is in the minority on this one. Not many people will rely on running standard tensioners without any preventative measure.

This is very true and I will say I do believe it is because of the advice I received from the Moriwaki tech many years ago.

I have followed what he told me and it has been all good...... or maybe I'm just lucky

Though I will put manuals in there one day, for no other reason than I'm tired of changing them out.

Though on the other board I was on I did see may hamfisted so called wrenches totally screw up on fitting manuals and would have been netter served running the auto units,

[VTRDark]

Though I will put manuals in there one day, for no other reason than I'm tired of changing them out.

And it gets expensive.

As for for Mori yes they run auto's, the same as Roger he always had them. But don't forget a race engine is getting rebuilt after every couple of races anyway. The stop mod is the way to go with the auto's as they work the same but the stopper just stops the chain getting so slack that it jumps teeth if there is a failure. It's a preventative measure. It doesn't stop it failing but it stops any major damage, and you can even ride home with it when it fails. It recently happened to Admin Sirch who runs auto's, the stopper saved him.

And yes some people who are nt that mechanically inclined have messed up manuals. But they are the sort of people that should not be working on the bike period. At the end of the day we can give advice but it's down to the individual to decide whether they are capable of doing something. If not get a mechanic to do it. This is another reason why I done MCCT Install thread as there was so many questions being asked and uncertainty's.

(:-})

[8541Hawk]

Though I will put manuals in there one day, for no other reason than I'm tired of changing them out.

And it gets expensive.

As for for Mori yes they run auto's, the same as Roger he always had them. But don't forget a race engine is getting rebuilt after every couple of races anyway. The stop mod is the way to go with the auto's as they work the same but the stopper just stops the chain getting so slack that it jumps teeth if there is a failure. It's a preventative measure. It doesn't stop it failing but it stops any major damage, and you can even ride home with it when it fails. It recently happened to Admin Sirch who runs auto's, the stopper saved him.

And yes some people who are nt that mechanically inclined have messed up manuals. But they are the sort of people that should not be working on the bike period. At the end of the day we can give advice but it's down to the individual to decide whether they are capable of doing something. If not get a mechanic to do it. This is another reason why I done MCCT Install thread as there was so many questions being asked and uncertainty's.

(:-})

I do agree with you on this.

The one thing I will pass on if you do still have auto tensioners is

Do Not let then bike sit and idle on the side stand.

This will cause the front tensioner to fail prematurely.

[seb421]

I've seen that mentioned previously about not letting the bike idol on the stand, could never understand why this would cause a problem with the CCT on the front? Can you explain please.

Also wombles keep changing Autos that's just a waste of money and they ain't cheap either. Stopper or Manuals

Most bikes i have looked into have issues with their own automatic cam chain tenshioners, looks to be a fair number of GSXR boys that install manuals too.

The only weak points are the CCT's which don't take long to sort and the RR which takes all of 5 mins to swap out and put a new finned one in, again not just honda specific seen lots of topics on suzuki sites on RR failures

Also have the shock linkage taken off and regreased if it's been used through winters as these can suffer with neglect and literally crack open

Also check the front drain hole is clear if it's been a sunny day only bike, as if it's blocked and you take it out in the rain down the motorway water gets down the plug recess and has no where to go boils and stops it fireing, the hole is next to the downpipe shove a wd40 straw up it and give it a good spraying to clear the hole out



Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[VTRDark]

I've seen that mentioned previously about not letting the bike idol on the stand, could never understand why this would cause a problem with the CCT on the front? Can you explain please.

Seb I think it's something to do with getting even less oil than the little it gets. This is one of Rogers recommendations as well.

(:-})

[seb421]

I've seen that mentioned previously about not letting the bike idol on the stand, could never understand why this would cause a problem with the CCT on the front? Can you explain please.

Seb I think it's something to do with getting even less oil than the little it gets. This is one of Rogers recommendations as well.

(:-})

Why though would it not get sufficient oil to it if the engine was turning over? iirc the tensioner is on the left side of the head the same as the lean

[VTRDark]

I don't know exactly how, but at a guess I would say that it is pressure related as the the oil pump is driven off the back of the clutch. So if the bike is leaning the other way then maybe the lack oil around the clutch area affects the way the oil pump operates. On a side note this why the idle speed is supposed to be at 1200rpm as this gives sufficient pressure to draw the oil up to all the components.

(:-})

[fabiostar]

i have to say lads you are all full of it lol and i mean good info by the way. iv checked the reg. its the finned type so happy days there. and just got the bike mot,d today as im importing it in from southern ireland so thats me back to the mainland reg and on the road... ps. iv also changed out the sprocket carrier bearing just incase..

[8541Hawk]

My take on it is the same, it causes the front tensioner to get no oil instead of the trickle it normally get but for a different reason.
I could be wrong as the Guy I got the info from really didn't speak much English and my Japanese is even worse.....lol

For a little back info, this was when I still lived in the SF Bay Area and local club racing is that AFM which is big on the West Coast and run tracks like Laguna Seca and Sears Point.
The US VTR program was run out of Erion Racing (One of the "Two Brothers" after they parted ways if you didn't know) with Bob H. (R.I.P) and Dan Kyle.....who is the guy rebuilding my shock right now.

So at one of the club raced, the Mori guys were there and I asked why no manual tensioners?
I was told...I think...lol that no real problem with them and one less thing to check just don't do three things.

So of course I asked what.....

Here is as close to the reply I got..... I use the broken English not to be racist bit to show why on something I had to kind of fill in the blanks.
He first wanted to know....bike, street - race.
I told him street and his reply was.

Easy,Easy....

No idle side stand. oil pressure low,fluctuate,pick up cover issue head problem no oil tensioner.

Which I translated into Don't let it idle on the side stand the oil pressure is low and can fluctuate, which starves the front CCT first, because of cavitation at the pickup causing it to come uncovered due to the angle of the oil in the pan..... sorry you can't see the hand gestures that lead me to this but is how I took it and he did say only low RPM issue, at speed no issues due to centrifugal force .

No slam throttle over-rev.....but you know that.

This one often gets misunderstood,that is why I stopped listing it at first but is very clear to me.
Don't take the engine to 9K or above and then just slam the throttle shut..... This is bad form in many different ways and will either get you to end up in the ditch or brake something in the engine, which happens to be the CCTs on a VTR, if you don't roll off the throttle at high RPMs

For some reason this always tends to get turned into "You mean I can't engine brake?"

I still don't know how they get to this but that is not what I said unless you engine brake by running into a corner at 9-10k RPM and just let go of the throttle to engine brake, then no I guess you shouldn't....lol

To also keep things clear, over rev is when you get past the HP peak in the power cure in this case, so 9K and above and you really should be smooth with your throttle control and rolling off the throttle if you are playing at those RPMs so it should be a non issue...... or like he said...You know that.

And lastly.....
Engine brake ok..... Engine as brake on hill no do use brake.

Which to me is also common sense.... it's ok to engine brake going into a corner. it is one advantage this bike has but don't replace your brakes with it.
I didn't ask for a "time limit" but took it as if your are engine braking for 4-5 sec, which is a damn long way, you won't have any issues.
In fact you could probably push that up to close to 10sec but close to or any more than that, you really should be using your brakes,
Which should be how you ride anyways as brakes are a lot cheaper than an engine to replace.

So I have followed my interpretation of this conversation with good results as I'm somewhere in the 90K mile range all on auto CCTs
I was also told that the service interval was every second valve adjustment.

Which leads to why I still have them.... it seems that the last two times my valve adjustment interval came up I go to order parts.
I wait as at this point in the bikes life I know I will need to change a shim or two and as my collection is still small I usually order them.....Being on the West coast it is usually two day to your door so no big deal.

I order shims....no worries then go to order manual CCTs only to be told they are on a 2-3 week back order.....
Call back Honda.....Autos added to the order.... two days with the shims.

So either I am just a lucky bastid or the stuff I was told works as the only VTR that I personally saw loose a CCT was "warming up" on the side stand,,,even though I warned him....silly lad.
I can just say they have given me no issues and I do wring her neck from time to time.

Still one day I'll get manuals.....I'll just order ahead as I have about 15-20k to go before I need to get in there again.

[agentpineapple]

very interesting write up hawk, i must admit to warming my bike up on the sidestand for a minute or so before heading off, from now on i will make sure i'm sitting on the bike when i warm it up....