front end clunk!

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KermitLeFrog
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Re: front end clunk!

Post by KermitLeFrog »

Wicky wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:37 am DID recommend avoiding kerosene (okay for push bike chains and the days before O and X ring sealed chains) >

Image
Mandy Rice-Davies applies.

A guy on ADV rider did a test. Summary:
Table of results
Conclusion of short term exposure:
1. Carb cleaner and Gasoline samples swelled to significant sizes. Definitely not recommended to use these fluids to clean an O-ring type chain. The carb cleaner exposed O-ring increased in diameter by 29%! The gasoline exposed O-ring increased in diameter by 11%.
2. WD-40, and Kerosene seem to have negligible to no effect on the O-rings (+/-1%)
3. Brake fluid, and PJ1 chain lube seem to have a negligible to small effect on the O-ring’s size.

Full thread here: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345397

Oiling after a Kerosene clean is vital though.
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Wicky
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Re: front end clunk!

Post by Wicky »

Interesting test - assuming o or x ring is made from Nitrile - odd then that DID explicitly specify NOT to use kerosene / paraffin with their chains - wonder if they use a different material...

http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/o ... ating#chem
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VTRDark
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Re: front end clunk!

Post by VTRDark »

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KermitLeFrog
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Re: front end clunk!

Post by KermitLeFrog »

Wicky wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:16 pm Interesting test - assuming o or x ring is made from Nitrile - odd then that DID explicitly specify NOT to use kerosene / paraffin with their chains - wonder if they use a different material...

http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/o ... ating#chem
Yes, interesting!
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fatfreddy000
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Re: front end clunk!

Post by fatfreddy000 »

good info on x-ring chain care..
just cleaned mine with a little wd40, i will put some light oil on it next.

regarding the front end clunk:
i just tried winding the fork spring preload adjusters right in and voila its much better!
i say that but I've only been out for a 15 min ride and it doesn't always do it so I'm hopeful but not certain.
i put a hyperpro fork spring and oil kit in it last year as the original springs were bottoming out on the slightest bump.
i set it up with a lot of preload anyway as I'm pretty heavy but it seems that it wasn't enough- I'm surprised it had that drastic effect of actually clunking when hitting potholes- think forks had so little load on them when extended that after accelerating and lifting the slightest force on the front wheel would cause them to instantly compress a bit and give the sensation of sudden movement and clunk?
perhaps my bushes are worn too.
a few more rides will make all clear..
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sirch345
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Re: front end clunk!

Post by sirch345 »

fatfreddy000 wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:32 am Plus, 1 more thing: my new did x-ring chain seems to have tightened (less free play than the recommended 40mm I set it at throughout its rotation) after a hundred miles or so.. Is this possible?
. And what are people's thoughts on correct care of an x-ring chain? Lubrication type and frequency etc.
Did you check the chain for free play just after you got back from a ride out :?: as I'm sure mine has less free play in it when it warm.

As for lubing the chain, I have fitted a Scott Oiler.

Seeing as you are now finding the clunk less with more pre-load, it does seem more like it is something to do with the forks, or the front end at least.
Up until then I was going to suggest you check the eyelets for movement on the rear shock. If there's any wear there it should be noticeable by raising the rear end of the bike up as far as the shock will allow by hand, you should hear a clunk as the shock tops out if any of the bushes/bearings (depending on which shock you have) are worn,

Chris.
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fatfreddy000
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Re: front end clunk!

Post by fatfreddy000 »

sirch345 wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:14 pm
fatfreddy000 wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:32 am Plus, 1 more thing: my new did x-ring chain seems to have tightened (less free play than the recommended 40mm I set it at throughout its rotation) after a hundred miles or so.. Is this possible?
. And what are people's thoughts on correct care of an x-ring chain? Lubrication type and frequency etc.
Did you check the chain for free play just after you got back from a ride out :?: as I'm sure mine has less free play in it when it warm.

As for lubing the chain, I have fitted a Scott Oiler.

Seeing as you are now finding the clunk less with more pre-load, it does seem more like it is something to do with the forks, or the front end at least.
Up until then I was going to suggest you check the eyelets for movement on the rear shock. If there's any wear there it should be noticeable by raising the rear end of the bike up as far as the shock will allow by hand, you should hear a clunk as the shock tops out if any of the bushes/bearings (depending on which shock you have) are worn,

Chris.
you're right.. yep free play is a fait bit less after a ride- i thought a blast would loosen it all up and the heat would expand everything a little but something else is going on which makes it tighter- interesting...
I've decided to just try and keep around 40mm free play (from midway between sprockets and in neutral the full distance the chain can travel from pulled down to pushed up- is this the right way to do it?)
i will also clean periodically with wd40 or similar and then give a light oiling- suggestions on what oil to use recommended- it is only to keep the rings in good shape and the exterior from corroding.

regarding the clunk I'm just gonna ride for a while longer and be certain it has improved or gone before any more tinkering.
I'm wondering if it could just be the preload but even really low shouldn't result in a clunk right?!
if there is another issue I'm thinking maybe fork internals e.g bushes are worn.
with the front end up and all my strength i can't get any clicking or clunking or movement at all...
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kenmoore
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Re: front end clunk!

Post by kenmoore »

Steering stem bearings ?
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sirch345
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Re: front end clunk!

Post by sirch345 »

fatfreddy000 wrote: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:15 am you're right.. yep free play is a fait bit less after a ride- i thought a blast would loosen it all up and the heat would expand everything a little but something else is going on which makes it tighter- interesting...
I've decided to just try and keep around 40mm free play (from midway between sprockets and in neutral the full distance the chain can travel from pulled down to pushed up- is this the right way to do it?)
i will also clean periodically with wd40 or similar and then give a light oiling- suggestions on what oil to use recommended- it is only to keep the rings in good shape and the exterior from corroding.

regarding the clunk I'm just gonna ride for a while longer and be certain it has improved or gone before any more tinkering.
I'm wondering if it could just be the preload but even really low shouldn't result in a clunk right?!
if there is another issue I'm thinking maybe fork internals e.g bushes are worn.
with the front end up and all my strength i can't get any clicking or clunking or movement at all...
That is how I check my chain for free play in the centre of the two sprockets, or there about.

Fork bushes could be worn. That will depend on the sort of life the bike has had and/or it's mileage,

Chris.
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Cadbury64
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Re: front end clunk!

Post by Cadbury64 »

Wicky wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:16 pm Interesting test - assuming o or x ring is made from Nitrile - odd then that DID explicitly specify NOT to use kerosene / paraffin with their chains - wonder if they use a different material...

http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/o ... ating#chem
I work in an industry that uses tanker-loads of white spirits, and "borrowed" a litre for chain cleaning purposes. I now have a chain that is slowly but surely shedding it's x-rings, and I assume my cheap cleaner is now proving to be quite expensive.
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jchesshyre
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Re: front end clunk!

Post by jchesshyre »

Wicky wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:37 am DID recommend avoiding kerosene (okay for push bike chains and the days before O and X ring sealed chains) >

Image
Just as a little aside regarding this: I used to use kerosene on o-ring chains with no problems, but soon after getting my 'storm and a new chain I used it to clean it because the DID instructions *in the box* mentioned 'high flash point solvent' as fine for cleaning, and after very few miles half of the x-rings had broken and were sticking out of the chain!! Then I checked on the DID website and they say not to use kerosene as above. So they've very definitely revised their advice. It's strange - perhaps the composition of the rings has changed or something?

See this thread I made about it http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=39849

So...don't use kerosene for cleaning chains (despite what older DID instructions, Haynes, and others say)!
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Re: front end clunk!

Post by sirch345 »

This might be your best bet then for DID chains, although a little expensive with P&P from Italy. I can't seem to find this in the UK,

Image


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLEANER-CHAI ... 2476429092

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Re: front end clunk!

Post by jchesshyre »

I've been using WD40 to clean my chains ever since then (two, each got 24,000 miles).
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sirch345
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Re: front end clunk!

Post by sirch345 »

jchesshyre wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:16 pm I've been using WD40 to clean my chains ever since then (two, each got 24,000 miles).
Will that be WD40 chain cleaner as below :?:

Image

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Re: front end clunk!

Post by jchesshyre »

sirch345 wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:43 pm
jchesshyre wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:16 pm I've been using WD40 to clean my chains ever since then (two, each got 24,000 miles).
Will that be WD40 chain cleaner as below :?:

Image

Chris.
No just straight WD40. I am of course aware of the claims made over the years about this damaging chains by either penetrating past the rings and dissolving the internal grease, or by causing the rings to swell, but I have not found this to be the case. My procedure is

1. Put bike on paddock stand.
2. Spray WD40 (from a pump bottle but an aerosol would be fine) onto chain on rear sprocket whilst rotating rear wheel, using riveted link to know when I've done the whole thing.
3. Brush back and sides of chain in one go with chain cleaning brush (one of the ones with bristles arranged as three sides of a square.
4. Brush inner run of chain with chain cleaning brush other end.
5. Spray more WD40 to clean further using step 2.
6. Start engine, put bike into sixth gear and add a few revs to fling the excess fluid and dirt off and make a nice streak of dirty WD40 on my back yard (having first double-checked that the bike is securely on the stand and that the rear wheel will not foul anything!).
7. Wipe chain with cloth.
8. Apply 90W gear oil using pump can on outside run of rear sprocket (yes this does allow it to reach the inside of the chain, and is far easier than applying it to the inside), using a tiny dribble on rings on one side, then the other, then on the rollers.
9. Wipe off excess with cloth.

This all takes me about five minutes.
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