Ethanol?

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jchesshyre
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Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:09 am
Location: Chester, Cheshire

Ethanol?

Post by jchesshyre »

I know the levels of ethanol in petrol are gradually rising (though have no idea of how much and how quickly) but I'm wondering if they've been raised recently. My bike's been running slightly less well over the last few months – not enough to cause concern, but just has seemed a little bit less peppy which I've put down to its increasing age (76k miles and counting) and the fact that I've been using it for short journeys a bit too often. Also, I've noticed a slight hesitation around 4k rpm sometimes when opening the throttle, especially in higher gears.

With my last couple of bikes, both CB500s, which I've put a total of 160k miles on, I mostly used super unleaded because they seemed to run slightly smoother and have better fuel efficiency with it. With the Firestorm, I tried super unleaded early on and found absolutely no difference, so have been using regular unleaded in it. However, the other day I filled it with super unleaded and found that the above symptoms are totally gone with it. It's definitely got more go – not more torque per se but crisper throttle response and better running on WOT at lower revs – and the 4k rpm stumble has gone.

While I know that these engines certainly do not need 97 RON petrol and will not make more power with it either, is it possible that the ethanol in regular unleaded (I understand that there's less of it or maybe none in super unleaded) is causing these symptoms? I know these bikes are sensitive to fuelling changes so I'm wondering whether the ethanol content affects this and hence causes the above symptoms?

It's absolutely not a placebo effect – I ride my bike every day or nearly every day, have put 50,000 miles on it since I got it in June 2016 so know it quite well, and am pretty sensitive to things changing!

I'd rather not spend £18 instead of £15 every time I fill it up, but if it runs better then I'll have no choice :D
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VTRDark
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Re: Ethanol?

Post by VTRDark »

It could be the change atmospheric conditions and/or some kind of ignition advancement affect hence why you are noticing a difference with the higher octane which reduces knock. It's more likely carb related rather than directly related to the quality of fuel. There's very strict guidlines to the quality of fuel in the UK
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alanfjones1411
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Re: Ethanol?

Post by alanfjones1411 »

I only use regular unleaded as advised by my local bike shop.It's what the engine was designed for (probably opened up a can of worms now).The man that owns the bike shop uses his Triton every day and would use nothing else but regular.
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jchesshyre
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Location: Chester, Cheshire

Re: Ethanol?

Post by jchesshyre »

Well, as far as I can tell from the Shell website (I usually get Shell petrol) the V-Power does also contain ethanol. I think there was a period when it didn't and the regular stuff did, but now they say that both fuels contain up to 5% ethanol.

So I wonder what the reason is for this difference I've noticed – I'm quite sure it's not the octane rating as previously discussed. Perhaps the extra cleaning additives? The difference was almost immediate though :think:
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mdb
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Location: South Wales

Re: Ethanol?

Post by mdb »

All fuels can have up to 5% added. If you get standard unleaded it probably has 5% Ethanol. The Super Unleaded are a bit of a lottery and depend upon the supplying refinery. The Special Super Duper High octane fuels that are becoming more common are something of a mystery and how much Ethanol content is very hard to ascertain as the vendors are very coy about Ethanol levels. Have a look at BP, Esso and Shell sites and you will find loads of blurb about latest chain technology and cleaning agents but bugger all about octane levels and ethanol.

There is heavy lobbying to start pumping E10 fuels from ethanol interested parties and I feel it is about to be foisted on us. Mostly all the motoring organisations (that represent vehicle drivers) are against E10 introduction. Its green credentials are tenuous as lower energy ethanol increases fuel consumption. Its harm to older engines is definite.
tony.mon
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Re: Ethanol?

Post by tony.mon »

It all tastes much the same, not even Werther's originals takes the taste away when siphoning next doors car out.
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VTRDark
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Re: Ethanol?

Post by VTRDark »

If we could get our vehicles to run on Methane then we could have a diet of beans and run them for free as long as you don't get the runs. So next time you think your engine is running like sh1t think again :lol: That would be very eco freindly considering that Methane is in abundance and a problem for global warming. A much better alternative to petrol or even electric.
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jchesshyre
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Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:09 am
Location: Chester, Cheshire

Re: Ethanol?

Post by jchesshyre »

Haha, well in any case putting this super unleaded in has resulted in a pretty significant improvement in the running of my engine. I think it must be the cleaning additives rather than being related to ethanol content.

While we're talking about ethanol, on my other bike (CB500) the pilot mixture screws (brass) have gone all green, fuzzy and corroded, and the head of one of them just crumbled when I tried to adjust it recently. I wonder if this is caused by ethanol in petrol or something else.
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VTRDark
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Re: Ethanol?

Post by VTRDark »

No, that just oxidation but chemicals certainly donlt help. I think it's something to do with the copper content in the metal. Have you ever noticed if you take a blow torch to a bit of copper wire the flames turn Green. Peaple pay a fortune for that effect in the antique world.
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podman
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Re: Ethanol?

Post by podman »

This topic comes up all the time in the classic bike circles, ive had to replace 2 of the 4 bikes fuel taps on the older bikes but as they are between 30 and 50 years old, ive put that down to wear and tear, my LC started pissing about a few years back but a strip/refurb , new needles and ultrasonic clean sorted that, Dad's Bantam did the same but it was the (worn) choke slide not fully releasing & jamming in the carb body occasionally.

Fuel wise ive used everything in all the bikes, both here and abroad, I cant detect any difference, nor can I in my Storm.

Carbs do wear , my friend has just changed a set on a 60k mile GPz750 as he couldn't get them adjusted right, , id suggest any differences large enough to be felt in the saddle are more than likely down to carb set up/wear rather than ethanol levels .
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