help fitting manual cct's...

[bullie23]

thanks amq that would be great... pm me your private number and i'll ring and arrange it with you...

[benny hedges]

I can have a listen to it if you can get over to Solihull after 8pm, can be available most nights, but give us some advanced warning

warning... dont go round on a friday after 9pm!

[bullie23]

nice one dude... but i'm alright. i'm going tonight

[AMCQ46]

warning... dont go round on a friday after 9pm!

Is that when you are due round??

[bullie23]

well I've been. He as helped me out a fair bit. Explained how to balance my carb's and sorted the cct's. Also tell your lovely wife thanks for the drink. Its was well needed.

[klx678]

I hate to come off preaching, but:

WHAT PART OF "FINGER TIGHT" DO SOME PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND?

The object is to take only the slack out of the cam chains, not put any tension on them. It is worse yet if you start to bog the engine at idle. That is damaging tight. The goal here isn't just to have everything silent, it is to know when you have proper cam drive adjustment. It can be silent, but be way too tight.

Fact is it would be better to have a tiny bit of play than too tight. Finger tightening is plenty adequate in every case I've encountered including tens of thousands of miles on my own bikes. I don't care who's manual tensioner you are running, finger tight is finger tight and is adequate to do what is necessary. Any thing more just promotes premature wear or possible head damage. You wouldn't overtighten your drive chain, why would you do it on your cam drive chain?

I have had a few people who bought tensioner kits from me have noise issues when they overtighten the adjusters. Once I get them to readjust them to finger tight the noise may go away or they found it was coming from another source. With around 400 tensioners around the world, I have yet to have anyone have any problems when adjusting them finger tight. The only issues are when they don't follow instructions.

Take this in the spirit it is meant - to open some riders' eyes to the correct adjustment to keep their bikes running. Nothing more and nothing less.

By the way, I did something that was interesting. I put a socket on an inch/lb beam style torque wrench and tried to see if I could make it deflect at all. I could not. I kind of doubt even the strongest of individuals here could overtighten a cam chain adjuster finger tightening it. I wonder how many inch/pounds of force they could generate if over one.

[tony.mon]

Funnily enough, I tried something last weekend when an owner was having their bike rebuilt after a cct failure.
I asked him to tighten his manual cct's finger tight, then opened the cam cover and showed him how there was no slack at all in the top chain run, between the sprockets.

Finger tight is too tight, for most people.

[darkember]

I thought rule of thumb was to get them finger tight then back off 1 quarter.

[klx678]

I thought rule of thumb was to get them finger tight then back off 1 quarter.

Yeah, you're right. I got so carried away that I missed saying that. If you are doing the cold set you finger tighten, regardless of strength, then back off 1/8-1/4 turn. In fine tuning with an engine warmed to operating temps, your adjustment is based on sound (till the ticking stops) and/or by feel (when the tapping on the adjuster bolt stops). Regardless, it is about overtightening because for some obscure reason people can not believe what is in the instruction. Like the one guy who would torque his small block Chevy head bolt, then give them another quarter turn to make sure they were tight (no they were not stretch bolts like some newer engines use). There is something behind those directions and specs. It wasn't just a lucky guess or guestimate.

Good point none the less.

[Miztaziggy]

Ziggy, that sounds like you have them too tight...
The problem with saying "hand tight" is that some people can get a fair bit of torque on a bolt, and some will stop as soon as it touches.
If you've wound it is as far as you can then added another half a turn the camchain will be tight as a bowstring.

as AMcQ says, have a look at the top chain run between the sprockets on the rear cams, as they're real easy to get to.
You want to see a few mm slack when the engine is set to rear tdc and the cam lobes pit toward each other on the rear cylinder.

Feel what tension is on the bolt by hand, and then achieve similar tension on the front one with the engine in the correct place (one and a quarter turns anti clockwise for the rear one) without having to take off the front cam cover.

As an alternative, quicker method, adjust each one in turn with the engine running at about 2000, undo it until you hear a slight rattle, then do it up just enough that the rattle stops, no more.
Then do the other one, and remember to turn the tickover back down to 1350. Do this with the engine warm.

Leaving them the way they are if too tight will lead to excess wear on the head journals where the cam runs.

Took your advice tony and backed them out about a turn each. Still no rattle from either, I might slacken them off some more.

Im assuming that when adjusting manual ones, as long as you dont wind them all the way out, you arent going to be slipping teeth. Slackening them off without being at TDC wont cause a problem will it?

Im thinking now of slackening them off some more when the engine is running until I get a rattle then winding back in just enough. I dont want to wear the engine with them being over tight.

[tony.mon]

Im thinking now of slackening them off some more when the engine is running until I get a rattle then winding back in just enough. I dont want to wear the engine with them being over tight.

That's exactly what you need to do, and no, unless you wind them out half a dozen full turns after they start rattling the chain can't be slack enough to jump teeth.

[Miztaziggy]

Thanks Tony, ill do that in the morning then.

Just one question though - do you wind them out with the engine at idle until you get a rattle, or do you have to rev to something specific to get the rattle?

[tony.mon]

Idle will get the best result, but don't confuse it with the clutch rattle you usually get on idle.
Try turning idle speed up to 1500 or so, or tie the clutch lever in with a cable tie to stop hearing that noise at the same time.

[Miztaziggy]

Brill, thanks again Tony

I don't get a clutch rattle on mine, I must be one of the lucky ones :-)

[tony.mon]

Just bring it round, I'm in all day.....