Should I rebuild this shed or count my losses.

[VTRDark]

The majority of CCT failure are on the front cylinder and usually just bend one or two valve, depending on how heavy and impact the failure was. Some get lucky and the chain just slips a few teeth, they hear tapping and stop riding any further. You can get away with it slipping two teeth before any impact at all. The worst case scenario is if there is such an impact that it damages the piston crown in such a case this may put stress bearings but it is rare. Like I say the majority of times it's just a couple of valves. Chains don't stretch much and should last the lifetime of the bike. I doubt the noise you can hear moving from side to side is the chain unless there is a cct failure and it is totally slack.

I think what you need to do before going out and spending money on forks and stuff is to set the timing to tdc on the compression stroke, remove the cam covers and have a look what's going on. See if all the marks line up on the cam sprockets And check the chain tension. If they are original Honda CCT's then the noise may even be the cct on the verge of failing. New ones can fail at anytime. While the covers are off you can check the valve clearances. If they have never been done then they are due with that mileage. If the clearance are overly excessive then this may suggest a bent valve or two. The only way to know for 100% sure is to remove the head.

Follow the instructions on here for setting the timing http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8326 it's more accurate than anything else.

I would personally would fit manual tensioners. But you should at least do a stop mod on the Honda CCT's currently on the bike unless one has failed/failing already. In which case you would have to get new ones first to do the stop mod on.
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 31&t=19416

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[mattycoops43]

Thank you, that was what I was hoping really, not to expect catastrophic damage! It is not being ridden anyway at the moment, so no danger of further damage. Think I will drop the engine out. While I am not going to do a complete rebuild, I do want to have a really thorough look for any other nasty surprises.

Where is the best place currently for manual CCT's? I have seen a few links on here that are old and don't look like they are still selling them.

Matt

[Wicky]

Where is the best place currently for manual CCT's? I have seen a few links on here that are old and don't look like they are still selling them.

Posted today: http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=28254

or contact bazza696 > http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... rs#p134126

[tony.mon]

Think I will drop the engine out. While I am not going to do a complete rebuild, I do want to have a really thorough look for any other nasty surprises.

Matt

I wouldn't, Matt, the cylinder head rebuild and fitting CCT's is easier with it in the frame, but mainly because sometimes the frame bolts, especially the long one in the middle that goes all the way through the engine and the frame both sides) can seize in place, and it's a bugger to shift.
If you aren't splitting the cases leave it where it is.

I've done a few, and they range from two to four days to shift a recalcitrant bolt......the quick way involves chopping through the engine mounting bosses and making up a spacer, but it isn't pretty....

[mattycoops43]

Thanks for that, I have to be honest, I had a read through the workshop manual today and thought to myself, er..... maybe not. Do you need a special tool for the adjustable mount bolts or is there a way round, I only have the honda manual so far, so it just assumes you have the tool.

Looks like good forks and discs sourced from members on here. Still trying to find out if Bazza is still doing his manual cct, mainly because they are apparently the cheaper ones and money is tight at the moment.

This vtr will live again!

[MacV2]

Thanks for that, I have to be honest, I had a read through the workshop manual today and thought to myself, er..... maybe not. Do you need a special tool for the adjustable mount bolts or is there a way round, I only have the honda manual so far, so it just assumes you have the tool.

Looks like good forks and discs sourced from members on here. Still trying to find out if Bazza is still doing his manual cct, mainly because they are apparently the cheaper ones and money is tight at the moment.

This vtr will live again!

Be patient he may be working away or something & can't get to his computer to check messages. I have a PM to him sitting in my out box which means he hasn't picked it up yet.

You have dropped him a line haven't you ?

[mattycoops43]

I have as of last night. Not in a rush as it's not going anywhere for a bit anyway.

[ernie234]

the front end shake could be tyre pressures i had 2 new tyres fitted the i went down the moterway to bennys the front end was shaking at speeds 20-50 mph at bennys he tightend the 4 ally bolts holding the spindle but it still shook then i took it back to the fitters it turned out to be low pressure in the rear it should be 44 and it was 35 been ok since. the shake was like a wheel inbalance on a car.

[seb421]

the front end shake could be tyre pressures i had 2 new tyres fitted the i went down the moterway to bennys the front end was shaking at speeds 20-50 mph at bennys he tightend the 4 ally bolts holding the spindle but it still shook then i took it back to the fitters it turned out to be low pressure in the rear it should be 44 and it was 35 been ok since. the shake was like a wheel inbalance on a car.

When I've tried low pressure in tires I've never had that feeling mate?

Think standard setting is 36 front 42 rear



Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[ernie234]

when your about 22 stone u need a bit more.

[agentpineapple]

the front end shake could be tyre pressures i had 2 new tyres fitted the i went down the moterway to bennys the front end was shaking at speeds 20-50 mph at bennys he tightend the 4 ally bolts holding the spindle but it still shook then i took it back to the fitters it turned out to be low pressure in the rear it should be 44 and it was 35 been ok since. the shake was like a wheel inbalance on a car.

i've run low pressures in both front and rear tyres and i've never had that problem, as seb said maybe the front wheel isn't balanced properly or the wheel isn't straight and has a slight buckle in it, although that would be present at any speed. have you checked all the front disc bolts are tightened properly?
although honda reccomends 36f 42r, i never run them that high, i prefer 32f 38r. its all down to personal preference.
i'm a touch more than 22st and i still run less than honda reccomends....

[mattycoops43]

HI chaps

First off, I am loving the forum, thanks for the helpful attitude around here. I have not done anything on the bike for a couple of weeks as I am in the process of sorting the bits I need to get it on the road, but have been doing a million hours at work anyway.

I have got CCT's from Bazzer, first step is to fit them. Should have forks and discs coming soon from members on here that have been extremely helpful.

I went out yesterday to have a look at the bike in preparation for doing CCT's. I pumped most of the fuel out of the tank and put it in my fazer as I will be lifting it off. I started it up out of curiosity more than anything and found a couple of things out. (there is no indication the CCT has gone btw or I wouldn't have started it, it runs the same as it did before I rode it up from Cornwall)

Firstly I had a really good listen, with my head right down by the front cylinder.

What surprised me is the bike started on the first turn of the key, and ran smoothly and sweet as you like for the first 30 seconds. No nasty noises, the only sound is the original exhausts. (fairly quiet)

After about 30 seconds a clanking comes in from the front cylinder that is a very definite cam chain noise, but just sounds like it is a bit loose.

Secondly, I took the oil fill cap off and it is pulsing out quite a strong pulse of air with every revolution. My fazer does not do this, but I am aware different engines have different crank breather systems, so I am just wondering if this is normal, or is this telling me something is fubar.

So, next step I am going to take both cam covers off, check all timing, valve clearances, and change to the manual CCT's. Fit a new choke cable and route it properly, and fit the brass dudars for the cable.

On the ride up from Cornwall, it ran perfectly well and had tone of power at all revs. but only realised it had a clanking noise when it got properly warm.

I am just curious from my description of the symptoms, can some vtr experienced people tell me if I should be expecting very bad things, or if it sounds like I just have a weak CCT on the front? I have heard the springs rust, so am thinking it is possible it can just be not great before it fails.

Anyway, it won't be run now again till I have checked it all out, I am just not sure what to expect as there are so many tales of woe on here about cct failure.

Thanks again.

Matt

[VTRDark]

The pulsing from the oil filler cap is normal with the bike running. I think half of that is due to the clutch plates being so close to the hole, so as it fly's past it pulses air out.

As for you knocking sound, I would only worry about that if it continues after fitting the MCCTs. You need to get it stripped down to investigate it all while fitting them anyway. As you you say it could be a weak tensioner and the chain is making a bit more noise.

As to what to expect. Well, nothing major really. Just make sure that you are at TDC on the compression stroke for whichever cylinder your working on. For the rear the cam lobes will be pointing upwards and inwards and for the front they will be pointing upwards and outwards. Check the markings on the cam sprockets for alignment with the top of the cylinder head. For the rear you will have RI and RI which align on the outside edge of the sprockets with a horizontal line on them. It helps if you have a straight edge like a ruler or something to check the alignment as it's hard to get eye level to see behind the frame.

The front will be the same as the rear except the markings on the sprockets will be FI (front inlet) and FE (front exhaust)

Rear cam lobes


Front cam lobes


You can just see the RI mark in this pic


Remove the breather hose on the front cam cover as it gets in the way a bit from sliding the cover off.


You will have to drop the oil cooler so two 8mm bolts to gain access to the cover


Both cam covers removed.




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