TPS/Carb jetting/Cans!!

[Griff1977]

Hi. First post since the site has changed its look. Seems a better layout but still taking me a bit of getting used to.

I've just joined the Superhawk site, for interest. Seems lots of topics on there and quite an impressively active forum! Obviously not as good as vtr1000.org!

I've a similar post on there but this is what's in my mind:

Now I'm planning to do the TPS mod this weekend (as long as recently ordered torx bits & multimeter arrives!), planning to go for 495ohms? Seems to be a difference how people do it- can I get away just raising tank? (im away from bike till thurs so can't picture exactly where TPS is ( I know it's on rear right carb side).

Also I'm planning to purchase new cans as I've got bafflectomised originals at mo! Plus I'll hopefully get it tuned with either Dynojet or Factory Pro- any one have an opinion on which is best option or/and have advice on some mid range (£$€) end cans? Thinking BlueFlame, Fuel, Scorpion?

I'll also look into the factory pro ignition advance rotor- has anybody on here fitted it themselves? If so could somebody describe in broad brush terms how it fits?

Anyway. So many more Qs!!??

Griff.

[scott02464]

Iv got a nice K&N filter to go with your re-jetting if your interested? Comes with cleaning kit that's only been used once ;-)

[Griff1977]

Cheers Scott but I've got a K&N already- bike doesn't really like it at mo so original back in! I might go for the BMC air filter when I do the tweaks!

Griff.

[Rob]

Will be watching this as I need to do the TPS too.

I'm hoping there is a way to do it without removing the carbs, then I can get it done now rather than wait......

[Kev L]

Nice try Scott!

[scott02464]

No probs fella ;-)

Good luck with getting it how you want it. I have blue flames on mine and can only comment in them, but they are brilliant! They make a wicked sound. Not sure on exact power figures tho mate.

I did re-jet it myself with the K&N and had it on the dyno, it put out 103bhp with the blue flames on.

[scott02464]

Nice try Scott!

[VTRDark]

planning to go for 495ohms

Don't think the .5 will make much difference personally but it's with the Factory pro specs of 500 give or take 10.

I'll also look into the factory pro ignition advance

These are only effective with the earlier storm. If you have a later updated model then there is no need as the advancer I believe was one of the things Honda upgraded.

I'm hoping there is a way to do it without removing the carbs

You could but it will be very fiddly and difficult to get accurate. It bad enough with the carbs off.

I will copy and paste from the other thread as this is a more TPS related topic.

The TPS advance and retards the ignition. When they come out the factory they are set according to emissions and not performance. The Factory Pro website recommends setting the TPS to 500Ohms with a tolerance of -10 +10 either way http://www.factorypro.com/prod_pages/prodh77.html
quote from Factory Pro

Also - as with ALL VTR1000's - the TPS must be checked and set to 500 +/- 10 ohms - or low speed cruise smoothness is impossible to attain.
They have been seen as much as 900 ohms as delivered.

To adjust it you need some security torx bits to undo the two bolts that hold it on the side of the carb. These can be picked up cheap, like a few quid, on eBay. And you need a multimeter.

Once the carbs are off which makes it far easer to adjust as it's fiddly to get spot on to 500. You will notice 3 prongs inside the tps where the plug connects. You need to measure the resistance on the top two prongs. You do this with your mutlimeter set to Ohms (2000ohms on multimeter setting). Check what you TPS reads at factory setting. You will notice yours will be set at maybe 800 or more or less from the factory.

Loosen the mounting bolts with the security torx bit. You can now spin the tps anti clockwise in the slots, turn it as far as it will go to the left and measure again. My guess is that it wont be near 500. Now you can either leave it as it is or force it to go to 500 by adjusting further.

Adjusting it further there are two schools of thought. You can either elongate the slots with a dremel by removing the brass bit inside, elongate the slot, replace brass bit and araldite/fill the gap which allows you to turn the TPS furthur anti clockwise.

Or the way I prefer is to completely remove the TPS of the side of the carb. Don't worry there is no bits that can come flying out. Once the tps has been removed you can see two metal prongs. The lower prong needs to be bent slightly downwards towards the base of the carb. Use a pair of long nosed pliers or something but go easily and gently as you don't want to snap it off. I have not had one snap on me yet but there is the possibility, so bend a little at a time.

Then put the TPs back on noting the plastic prong on the back of it which slots in the middle of the two metal ones on the carb where you just bent one. Tighten the torx bolts as much as you can where you are still able to move the tps around. Get the multimeter back on and twist the tps around until you reach between 490 and 510. If you can get it spot on 500 then great but as I said earlier it is fiddly.

The reason it is fiddly is because you tighten the torx back up fully to lock it off and the adjustment will move a little. For example, you could check it and it will read 500, tighten the torx fully and it moves to 520. So the trick is to tighten the torx as much as you can but not fully but so you can barely move it. Then move it a bit at a time. Maybe a gentle tap. Tighten the torx fully then check with multimeter. It could take you 20mins of fiddling around with it trying to get it spot on to 500, or you could just settle for it being within spec.

Hope that explains things clearly.

(:-})

[tony.mon]

I'll also look into the factory pro ignition advance

These are only effective with the earlier storm. If you have a later updated model then there is no need as the advancer I believe was one of the things Honda upgraded.

(:-})

Carl, I haven't heard this before; where did you get the info?
As far as I'm aware, all Storms have the same ignition trigger, fitted inside the clutch cover just below the water pump, on the end of the crankshaft.
The Factory Pro replacement (which I have fitted on mine) merely uses the same device but moves the location channel the necessary number of degrees anticlockwise, which has the effect of moving the little spines that induce a collapse of the field in the coil, therefore a spark at the plug, clockwise. This advances the spark at the plug by a constant number of degrees, all the way through the rev range.

It's a little crude compared to a Power Commander ignition module or similar, which give you the ability to adjust the advance to different settings at different points throughout the rev range.
You might, for instance, want to leave the ignition where it is at tickover, so that starting is easier.
HOWEVER, you can't do this easily on Firestorms, you need a modified ignition module, and it's not cheap or easy.

But back to your comment, if the later ones really do have an advanced rotor, so act in the same way as the FP ones, they'd be a lot cheaper......until Marty corners the market, of course.....

It might be that there's a different ignition map in the facelift version's ignition module; and I don't know but expect that this would be an easy swapover if it's effective.

Can anyone throw any light on this?

[VTRDark]

I've read it in a few places, definitely on the hawk site and maybe somewhere else on the web. Possibly some old threads on here while searching through old stuff. But it's something that has stuck in my head. As for it being the advancer or module being the reason for no need, I'm not sure, but I vaguely recall the advancer itself being mentioned.

I shall start searching and find something to back it up as evidence

OK seems to be the general consensus on the superhawk site but it's not the advancer itself but the electronic curve. According to hawk the timing was advanced when the new ECUs came out. I'm presuming he's right with his experience and knowledge of these bikes.

Then there's all sorts of comments across the board.

My hawk is an '04, will the advance help? I heard that the newer models are already advanced 4 degrees from the old one.

I've heard that but don't know. The Ronayers.com microfiches list the same part #s for the timing advance rotors for every year VTR, but interestingly, in each case they list two different part numbers for that one part.

When I adjusted my TPS from the 850-900 ohms it was shipped with down to the 500 ohms the manual calls for, I got a big improvement in incremental throttle response, but seemed to have lost a bit of hit at full throttle.

Here's what I wonder; did maybe honda "adjust" the timing on later models by simply cranking the TPS over to 850+ ohms?

I guess I'll find out personally when I get around to installing the advancer, which won't be for a while.

Supposedly the '02s and later have a better advance curve from the factory and I didn't notice any real difference when I did have it installed.

Here's a handy link that list all the upgrades in the later model storms. There is no specific answer to the the advanced curve but it does say there was changes to ignition settings in the interests of smoother, more responsive performance. So they are not just referring to the HISS http://www.burniemorgan.com/firestorm/vtr2001.html

So it seems there is no conclusive evidence without sending and ECU off to someone like this for testing http://www.cdidoctor.com/index.php?main ... _1550_2663

(:-})

[Griff1977]

So I adjusted my TPS today. With torx sockets & multimeter in hand!

To the purists this will seem rash but it's had a positive effect! I removed tank (turned around where seat fits), removed air box top & bottom and this gave me reasonable access to the TPS. Well enough access to remove it as too fiddly (impossible, practically) to do a multimeter check in place. So as I've never taken the carbs off before (and didn't feel upto it) I thought I'd have a guess at the correct position! So I tapped the arm that the TPS moves on the carb (to extend the TPS range) and when replaced, turned TPS fully anticlockwise.

So, after seeing how the TPS worked on the two internal arms on the side of the carbs, and knowing that worst case I can always build up the courage & remove carbs (to adjust more accurately) if this has a negative effect, I went with this.

All back together and fired her up. Was cold (not started today) so should normally need some choke even just for 30 secs; started perfect, no choke needed, idles lower aswell: 900-1000 and not hunting as much at idle. Few twists of the throttle & feels smoother.

Anyway, this might all be in my head!? Need a test ride. Missus comes out and sees if I want to go get some chips! Perfect. So a quick ride for 10 mins (the scenic route) and I felt a smooth, more responsive feel. So overall I am happy!

I do want to do the job properly but until I'm happy removing carbs, this setting will do!

Laters. Griff.

[VTRDark]

Carb removal is simple:
1 Remove tanks and airbox.
2 Undo the choke cable at the frame where the knob is. Just loosen the plastic nut on the rear and slide it out the bracket on the frame. Leave it there loose for now.
3 Loosen and disconnect the throttle cables note which way round they go.
4 Disconnect the TPS cable from carb
5 Loosen the top screws on the clips that attach the carb rubbers at the base of the carbs. The front you can access on the right hand side just behind the rad through the small hole in the plastic shroud/cowl. The rear you can access on the left hand side off bike from the top of the frame.
6 Wiggle the carbs side to side and they should pop of the rubbers.
7 Now would be a good time to feed the choke cable out from under the coolant hose so it free from getting caught on anything. Note the routing of the cables.
8 Undo the clips and remove the coolent inlet hoses on the base of the carbs. The front is on the left hand side. And the rear is on the right hand side. There's no need to drain the cooling system as there will only be a teaspoon of fluid loss.
9 That's it, now lift the carbs out as one piece with choke cables still attached.



(:-})

[Griff1977]

So I adjusted my TPS today. With torx sockets & multimeter in hand!

To the purists this will seem rash but it's had a positive effect! I removed tank (turned around where seat fits), removed air box top & bottom and this gave me reasonable access to the TPS. Well enough access to remove it as too fiddly (impossible, practically) to do a multimeter check in place. So as I've never taken the carbs off before (and didn't feel upto it) I thought I'd have a guess at the correct position! So I tapped the arm that the TPS moves on the carb (to extend the TPS range) and when replaced, turned TPS fully anticlockwise.

So, after seeing how the TPS worked on the two internal arms on the side of the carbs, and knowing that worst case I can always build up the courage & remove carbs (to adjust more accurately) if this has a negative effect, I went with this.

All back together and fired her up. Was cold (not started today) so should normally need some choke even just for 30 secs; started perfect, no choke needed, idles lower aswell: 900-1000 and not hunting as much at idle. Few twists of the throttle & feels smoother.

Anyway, this might all be in my head!? Need a test ride. Missus comes out and sees if I want to go get some chips! Perfect. So a quick ride for 10 mins (the scenic route) and I felt a smooth, more responsive feel. So overall I am happy!

I do want to do the job properly but until I'm happy removing carbs, this setting will do!

Laters. Griff.

Today I did my TPS properly, and took my time after removing carbs last night. This is the most in depth I have been with the bike and I am pretty happy. Its all about the right tools and not rushing, and being confident - but you can only be confident if you have read up and have good advice. I found the forum great for this.

Anyway, from my thread a while ago (see above), I adjusted my TPS by just twisting the TPS after bending the lip inside, as a best guess.

So this time, with carbs off, I checked TPS setting, to see how close I was with this rough approach:



And so I had actually gone too far. It has ran very well (better than before adjustment) since, but obviously needed fine tuning, so I bent lip back a little and a few more checks of multi meter (after small twists of TPS) and:



So, must say, this was complete luck to get bang on 500. This was after tightening as well - before tightening it was, I think, 507, and I think if I re-tested it later it might be 497, so it is within +-10, which I am really happy with.

Now onto carb balancing set up!! Oh, and Stick coils as they arrived as well!!

Griff

[agentpineapple]

good work griff, god knows how you managed to take that picture whilst adjusting the tps, very skillful indeed.....

[AMCQ46]

good work only problem I found was after I balanced the carbs, I ended up lowering the idle speed and that then moves the base TPS setting again