cct too tight

[PARSLEYRIPPER]

Can you tell by listening if they are too tight? Just wondering/paranoid

[sirch345]

One tell-tale sign is a chirp or screech on start-up.

Did you not follow the instructions on here for setting the correct amount of slack in the cam chains when fitting your manual CCT's

Chris.

[VTRdH]

If the manual tensioners are tightened far too much the engine will have problems starting when cold.Engine will have difficulties turning.
As soon as the engine is warm it will be a bit better.
So if you face that , they are really too tighten.
Otherwise, just read the instructions again and adjust them.

[PARSLEYRIPPER]

Followed the instructions to the letter and excellent they were! No noises on start up and all seems well, you cant help thinking ooooh is that a different sound or oh seems to be different but cant put my finger on it. Prob just me being paranoid and its a replacement engine after the last one had cct failure and its sat waiting for me to fix it.

[Geordie]

I would strongly suggest that you dont try listen to anything its really far too much of a black art. Just get torn into the bike take both valve covers off both chain guides off and using the fitting guides on here turn the engine to the correct position and measure the cam chain deflection between the sprockets on both cylinders. Its the only way to adjust them semi accurately without strain gauges and being a professional engine builder. There is plenty chat about just setting up the timing to check using just the rear cylinder so avoiding the hassle of trying to remove the front cylinder valve cover .. dont do it .. remove both and do the same measurements and adjustments at both cylinders. If you are in any doubt the autos with the stopper mod is probably more suited to you ..
I actually dread to think of all the vtr engines out there with defective camshaft bearings due to over tight mccts ... !!!

[VTRDark]

No noises on start up and all seems well, you cant help thinking ooooh is that a different sound or oh seems to be different but cant put my finger on it. Prob just me being paranoid and its a replacement engine after the last one had cct failure and its sat waiting for me to fix it

Many variables come into play here especially with a new unknown engine. All engines with have a slight different tone due to wear and tear and various differences in set-up/tolerances etc. When fitting MCCT's this does change the tone once again as I mentioned in the guide. If you feeling a bit para (perfectly understandable) and need some reassurance then the best thing to do is to tear back into things and double check the accuracy of measurements. Put is all back together, and ride the bike with peace of mind that you wont suffer with another CCT failure.

I would strongly suggest that you dont try listen to anything its really far too much of a black art.

Not a Black art just for the more experienced. There are various methods and shortcuts that can be taken from feel to listening, counting turns etc.

Just get torn into the bike take both valve covers off both chain guides off and using the fitting guides on here turn the engine to the correct position and measure the cam chain deflection between the sprockets on both cylinders.

Agree. This is one of the reasons I wrote the guide. It's the only way to be 100% sure that everything is spot on as it should, right down to the mm. It also gives one the chance to check their cam alignment marks.

FYI there is 5mm slack on the chain with the Honda auto's with the chain at it's slackest point on the compression stroke. The The 5-7mm is taken from this and the many years experience that the Likes of Kreiga, Ape etc have had with the production on MCCT's over the years for various models of bikes. There have been hundreds of VTR's over the years that have MCCT's fitted to this tension without any issues.

Problems only arise either from bad installation or from within ones own mind worrying about things and listening for noises. It's a bit like when one can't think of a word and it's on the tip of your tongue. The more you think about it, the more niggled you get. The best thing to do is forget about it and if needs be come back to it later when things are more clearer.

If in doubt go with the stopper mod but there are some out there that would question that. If still in doubt, stick with Honda autos as they where designed. There's MANY MANY that would question that So take you pick.

(:-})

[PARSLEYRIPPER]

Everything was done as per the guide, every engine is slightly different and has a different tone.Nothing is a black art. I have probably built close to 100 engines in my time as a mechanic and garage owner. I put the post up out of interest to see what people thought. If you have never worked on a particular engine a guide is a great tool and very helpful. The whole "black art" thing I cant agree with. Anyway hey ho.

[PARSLEYRIPPER]

Oh and I should NOT have used the word paranoid. It was the wrong word, my bad. Curious might have been better.

[VTRDark]

Curious is a much more pleasant word and makes more sense for someone that understands and has built engines.

So to answer your original question "Can you tell by listening if they are too tight?" not always, but if way overly tight then the engine will struggle to turn over and/or may even screech. I don't have to tell you the stresses and strains this puts on an engine.

(:-})

[PARSLEYRIPPER]

Yes well aware of the stresses, must be a bit more careful asking novice questions to spark a topic if you know what I mean.

[tony.mon]

I actually dread to think of all the vtr engines out there with defective camshaft bearings due to over tight mccts ... !!!

Funny you say this. I thought the same, but having stripped dozens and dozens of these engines I've only ever seen one with damaged journals in the head...

You'd think there would be more- it's a regular issue with cb125 engines- the old single cam standard, used in many Honda models.

Maybe the oil pressure in Storm engines is strong enough to keep a film between the metal.
If you get a screech, it's either this or the starter transfer gears.

It's the "finger tight" bit that always got me- finger tight to some people is too loose, and with some it's too tight. I've played around with this, asking owners who I've fitted manuals for to adjust them to what they thought finger tight meant, then opening up the cam cover and measuring it. Lots of variation, anywhere between 10 and 0 mm on the top chain run.

But then, how do you measure deflection? Lean on it? wiggle it until there's the slightest resistance?

And don't worry about asking daft questions, we're full of daft answers......

[E.Marquez]

But then, how do you measure deflection? Lean on it? wiggle it until there's the slightest resistance?

...

If you really want to know..... I do it with a fish scale ... Use it when setting most all manual cam chain tensions.. Nothing to do with a useful bit of info to anyone else, nor to achieve some wizard specification.. But for my own want to be constant front to back or before and after a rebuild, top end, maintenance. I do a lot of repeat customers...before and after a big ride or out of country adventure ride.. or guys that just have to have a new...well everything so perfectly good motors get torn into time and time again.