manual cct front pipe red after ? help

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matty
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manual cct front pipe red after ? help

Post by matty »

hi there new to the forum , bought a storm 2 weeks ago and have just serviced and fitted manual ccts , when I am running it up for coolant the front pipe started to glow red I did the basic checks , plugs etc but removed rocker covers again and checked rear cylinder is 100 % but the front is slightly off , removed both cams and re did setting but still goes back to where it was before any suggestions thanks john
Last edited by matty on Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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AMCQ46
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Re: manual cct front pipe red after ?

Post by AMCQ46 »

sounds like it might be running lean on one cyl, are the carbs seated OK?

don't see how a CCT change will to anything to the heat generation when idling........ it will either bend valves or it will idle fairly OK [the mixture will be correct, but the compression will vary!], so I would be looking for air leaks or fuel shortages
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matty
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Re: manual cct front pipe red after ?

Post by matty »

AMCQ46 wrote:sounds like it might be running lean on one cyl, are the carbs seated OK?

don't see how a CCT change will to anything to the heat generation when idling........ it will either bend valves or it will idle fairly OK [the mixture will be correct, but the compression will vary!], so I would be looking for air leaks or fuel shortages

hi re built the bike cct are perfect but think I will need to look at the carbs but thanks for reply cheers john
matty
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Re: manual cct front pipe red after ? help

Post by matty »

just a quick update removed carbs which seemed to be seated right , checked pipework and all manifold rubbers all seem ok, removed the carb bowls , all jets clear no dirt at all absolutely spotless , set mixtures etc float heights , next job will be compressions test beginning to think I was sold the bike like this , as it drives the same , with no issues ! where do I go from here cheers john
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AMCQ46
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Re: manual cct front pipe red after ? help

Post by AMCQ46 »

can you describe the conditions that result in the front pipe glowing red?
ie, how long does it take after start, is it just sitting at idle or blipping the throttle, does it idle smoothly, what is the temp gague showing?

also is the exhaust damaged or restricted or full of carbon?
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AMCQ46
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Re: manual cct front pipe red after ? help

Post by AMCQ46 »

oh, and is it a newer bike with the full emissions gubbins on it?
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matty
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Re: manual cct front pipe red after ? help

Post by matty »

hi again its a 99 model with yosh cans and k&n [ which I have cleaned and oiled ] and found some k&n oil in the air box ? too much oil ? its been dyno d start the bike from cold first touch of button run for a min , put choke in , it runs sweet at idle after 5 mins taking the revs up to 2 with garage light off the front pipe start to get red and the longer its run the redder it gets, don't know what to do next reset tps ? poss bike runs and pulls well surely if valves bent it would run crap cheers john
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Wicky
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Re: manual cct front pipe red after ? help

Post by Wicky »

Did you have it dynoed before or after cleaning K&N? If its getting red hot just off idle didn't they notice when they they were dynoing it?

What and how did you clean and oil the filter?

http://www.knfilters.co.uk/clningins.aspx

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TheGingerBeardMan
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Re: manual cct front pipe red after ? help

Post by TheGingerBeardMan »

What are the jet settings like? Could be too lean a pilot jet?

Check that the spark plugs are the right ones for the bike. (You get different heat settings)

But, I personally would not keep trying the bike until everything has been "dry" tested - i.e cold, with NO engine running.

If the header is glowing red hot, then there is too much heat coming from the port, and therefore too much heat produced inside the barrel/ontop of the piston.

You may end up cracking the piston, fuking the rings, warping the barrel, or the front cylinder head. Expensive.

Also check the HT lead and cap for heat damage, and check for faulty coil to that cylinder.

With the header being close to the coolant hose (on top), check it is not melting by the rising heat.

If in doubt, get it professionally checked. May cost more than trying it yourself, but, the cost can be offset by a quick diagnosis with minimum damage.

The last thing you want is a fire if something "gives".
If it ain't broken...f*ck about with it until it is.

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AMCQ46
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Re: manual cct front pipe red after ? help

Post by AMCQ46 »

its really easy to over oil the filters, but the bike will then be running rich and fluffy............. test is to hold the filter up to the light and you should be able to see the light easily and uniformly through the filter........ just with the colour of the oil just tinting all the element compared to how it was after cleaning
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TheGingerBeardMan
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Re: manual cct front pipe red after ? help

Post by TheGingerBeardMan »

Someone also just shouted "exhaust gasket". Is the front of the exhaust header black or sooty? Is it spitting when running? May be a worn header gasket, allowing the air mix to be off, and cause hotter running.

Process of elimination, and again, the more you start up the bike, the more chance of doing serious damage. Ok, the effect may not appear immediately, but over a short time with the internals getting heated to extremes. Fatique could be only a few miles down the road - even after the problem is discovered and rectified.

So, try not to keep firing it up until all dry checks have been done.
If it ain't broken...f*ck about with it until it is.

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matty
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Re: manual cct front pipe red after ? help

Post by matty »

hi where do I start the bike was dyno d a couple of years ago before I got it , ive only serviced it and done mcct , new iridium plugs , and all fluids , no sign of exhaust blowing , no popping or banging on over run which I think it would if it was drawing air , will try and swap the coils to see thanks again cheers john
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TheGingerBeardMan
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Re: manual cct front pipe red after ? help

Post by TheGingerBeardMan »

Just another thing to check:

Although the Iridium plugs (NGK DPR 9EIX-9) have been recently fitted and are classed as "new", don't discount them.

The ceramic on the Iridium plugs are easily damaged - and can crack or split easily if banged or knocked. Even a hairline crack could cause problems in the plugs performance.

Also, they are meant to be self gapped, and are "dodgy" to physically gap, as it means tapping, or getting something close to the ceramic. The shock can be enough to hairline them.

So, removing the Iridiums, and putting standard back in again (NGK DPR 9EVX-9) could also be on the list of things to try.

Is it possible to put the bike back to the standard fittings/settings? (Air filter, spark plugs and any other fancy bit installed etc)

--------------------------------------------------------

On a non post related opinion: I don't think I'd ever take a chance on getting my bike Dyno tested, as I've seen many carried out, and ok, the owner is eager to get the results, but me? I shudder at having the bike balls out on the redline, and then whacking in the clutch. It all seems too much stress on an engine, unless PROPER race tuned with superior quality parts.

Can you imagine what would happen if some poor bugger turned up with a standard VTR1000F, with standard CCTs (like me) and at 9000 rpm, the CCT decided to jump at the split second the tension is off the motor when the clutch is pulled in?

:eek2 :Jaw Drop: :Shock1: :Wall:

Panic panic.
If it ain't broken...f*ck about with it until it is.

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matty
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Re: manual cct front pipe red after ? help

Post by matty »

hi gingerbeardman , I already put the old plugs back in no difference , also swapped coils no difference , just pulled rocker covers off again the valve timing is spot on , apart from getting a compression test done I am totally lost with this one ! cheers john
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Re: manual cct front pipe red after ? help

Post by TheGingerBeardMan »

Crikey, this IS a mystery.

Only other thing I have, is ok, you got Yoshi cans on the back, but what about the downpipes? Are they original VTR?

What would the possibilities be (and here I ask for technical advice too), of the headers being thinned down over time?

Some bike header pipes are double walled, and I've heard of the inside skin falling apart or disintegrating over time, leaving the header paper thin, or thin enough to physically show the excess heat (which the double "skin" would have prevented).

Apart from that, I'm totally lost now as to what it could be. :Shrug:

You've done everything I could possibly think off, and it's still glowing redder and brighter than a guys Richard in a brothel with a "buy one get one free" offer.
If it ain't broken...f*ck about with it until it is.

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