Hello again,
I'm quite new. I bought a bike lat week and I'm trying to do a proper tuning.
I had other 2 cylinder bikes before... transalp, africa, few times a monster. My understanding is that 90 degrees V engines tends not to vibrate this much.
Well, my VTR1000F vibrates more then my yamaha TT600 (1989). Much more. At High RPM and High speed only.
To the point is quite unconfortable to drive for long distances... and I'm usually not a picky person, did Turky and Tunisia with the TT (3000K km each trip).
The bike was used on a track, I'm not sure if something has been changed. It has this feeling of a racebike, I never tried other VTR, but the previous owner made probably some changes. Carburation on the minimum is not even, but I don't care much and shouldn't affect vibrations at open gas. The Motorbike has two termignonis and sport filter... But still slight carburation issues shouldn't affect the vibrations so much. Vibrations are directly on the steer bars.
The bike has some ticking from the valves regulation... but I think isn't this much.. I heard much worst, I think I will need to check them in 6-10k kms. I don't hear any sound coming from the primary chains... CCT should be still ok, but the bike has 60K and they I have never been changed I thinkg. But I'm in the north of Germany... is quite cold here, maybe the automatic CCT doesn't suffer this much.
Do your VTR vibrate this much?
Insane vibrations
Re: Insane vibrations
first off change the ccts and when you are at it check the timing to make sure its not tooth or two out... id also be checking all the engine mounts to make sure its actually not the engine moving about enough to cause the vibs.
is the flywheel tight on the crank?
wheels not bent or outa true discs?
is the flywheel tight on the crank?
wheels not bent or outa true discs?
the older i get,the faster i was 
Re: Insane vibrations
One more info: When I got the bike one week ago, the seller gave me the bill of his mechanic doing a full carbs cleaning this april.
Now... I don't know what the mechanic did, and he must have been a shitty mechanic since he didn't put back the vacuum plug on the fuel "pump"/"link". But for 250euro he probably did at least cleaning and synch.
Other info: I have the weights on the handle bars.
Now... I don't know what the mechanic did, and he must have been a shitty mechanic since he didn't put back the vacuum plug on the fuel "pump"/"link". But for 250euro he probably did at least cleaning and synch.
Other info: I have the weights on the handle bars.
Re: Insane vibrations
one major influence on the vibration felt through the frame can be the exhaust system and how it is mounted, if the mouns are fighting each other the vibration transmission goes right up.
the solution is to slacken off all the clamps and mounts from front to back and try and realign it by pulling pushing and twisting so it looks like it wants to line up then gently tighten each element bit by bit from the front to the back then to the front & repeat, wiggling all the joints after each twist of the spanners to keep it in the neutral alignment
the solution is to slacken off all the clamps and mounts from front to back and try and realign it by pulling pushing and twisting so it looks like it wants to line up then gently tighten each element bit by bit from the front to the back then to the front & repeat, wiggling all the joints after each twist of the spanners to keep it in the neutral alignment
AMcQ
Re: Insane vibrations
Wheels look ok. Flywheel I think was never touched.fabiostar wrote:first off change the ccts and when you are at it check the timing to make sure its not tooth or two out... id also be checking all the engine mounts to make sure its actually not the engine moving about enough to cause the vibs.
is the flywheel tight on the crank?
wheels not bent or outa true discs?
Only the clutch was changed a while ago.
CCTs timing? My understanding is that if CCTs are stucked they let the primary chains run loose and this produces some shuttering sound.
Shouldn't be connected witht he vibrations I think and anyway... I think there is no shuttering sound from the engine. I heard some mbikes with old primary chain and I know more or less what is the sound. Apart from the valve ticking the engine runs quite silent. Valves ticking is not extreme... I would say 10k before having to be serviced.
Re: Insane vibrations
Check the easy things but if it's been a track bike it could be just about anything from its hard life - Try giving it a service and seeing if that improves things.
Has the engine been replaced as there's a specific procedure to tightening up the engine mounts as the engine block is an intergral part of the frame /swingarm.
Has the engine been replaced as there's a specific procedure to tightening up the engine mounts as the engine block is an intergral part of the frame /swingarm.
It may be that your whole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.
VTR Firestorm and other bikes t-shirts
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alanfjones1411
- Posts: 2791
- Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 3:33 pm
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Re: Insane vibrations
Cooling fan unbalanced ???
SO WHEN DOES THIS OLD ENOUGH TO KNOW BETTER KICK IN
Re: Insane vibrations
Some good suggestions so far I agree.
A compression test might be a good idea, the ticking you're hearing makes me wonder if you have a bent valve or two. A compression test would confirm one way or the other,
Chris.
A compression test might be a good idea, the ticking you're hearing makes me wonder if you have a bent valve or two. A compression test would confirm one way or the other,
Chris.
Re: Insane vibrations
They all vibrate to some extent it all depends on what your used to...
You mention the bars have the weights in the end...are they std ones or aftermarket ones...I ask as std ones fix onto the internal weight in the bar. If they are after martket ones the internal weight may have been removed which WILL make the vibes feel worse. They are there for a reason after all.
A sort of fix if you dont have the internal weight is to fill the bar with silicone sealent...bung some lead shot in for good measure.
You mention the bars have the weights in the end...are they std ones or aftermarket ones...I ask as std ones fix onto the internal weight in the bar. If they are after martket ones the internal weight may have been removed which WILL make the vibes feel worse. They are there for a reason after all.
A sort of fix if you dont have the internal weight is to fill the bar with silicone sealent...bung some lead shot in for good measure.
Making up since 2007, sometimes it's true...Honest...
Re: Insane vibrations
I'd go with a carb balance as the carbs have been off and tinkered with. What's the odds on them not balancing them afterwards especially if there is no front vacuum take off, then the exhaust.
http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=18430
Where are you feeling the vibrations, hand, feet, all over?
http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=18430
Where are you feeling the vibrations, hand, feet, all over?
==============================Enter the Darkside
Re: Insane vibrations
Wow, a lot of advices.
I feel the vibration mostly on the steer bars, but I would say they are present also on the frame.
Weights are the original ones I think, they are ok.
Carb unbalance is a possibility, how do I sort out if this is the problem without deassembling them? I think it is important to consider that a 250euro professional carb cleaning 2 months ago must have included vacuum check and carb balance... at least I guess so, but maybe the mechanic wasn't this good.
About the engine and valves.
Given the amount of power I would guess the compression is there. The engine is brutal in delivering from the bottom to the top. My feeling is that the CVs are all there. The motorbike doesn't burn oil at all. At least not from the valves (open close gas check from the cans), there's no weird smoke. A bent valve would be really easy to spot right?
There's one more issue I notices, I didn't want to include it in this post to prevent confusion and because it is hard to descrive, but maybe is connected.
So: with cold engine (first 5-8min), I noticed few times something weird. I get the feeling that the engine is missing an ignition cycle, maybe only one of the cylinders. And at the same time I have the impression there's some mechanic distress somewhere in the leverages of the engine. Hard to explain, the two things are synched. I thought could be not ignited fuel that doesn't get compressed properly and stresses on the piston foot (don't know english proper names). It feels a bit like having a broken bearing on the crankshaft, in terms of feeling. But I think the crankshaft is fine, I made some stress test and couldn't reproduce the issue. But seems to be limited to low RPM and cold engine. I know that with temperature the metal dilatation would compensate for minor defects, but couldn't reproduce the problem while standing with the cold engine even stressing it (brakes and let the engine die - "hitting the head" don't know to call it ;) ).
So, to resume, you suggest:
-- To check somehow the carbs -- maybe I should put back the original filter, because with the Termignoni the bike is running dry. (carburation at the minimum is irregular).
-- To check if the cans are well attached and not in tension.
-- To check the connection of the engine - but the engine was never changed. There are no signs on the screws and so on. Only clutch was changed.
-- To check some internal parts of the engine - valves - but I would suppose that I would have noticed if there was a broken valve, a bent valve doesn't last this long and should be noticed I think (I never got one).
I feel the vibration mostly on the steer bars, but I would say they are present also on the frame.
Weights are the original ones I think, they are ok.
Carb unbalance is a possibility, how do I sort out if this is the problem without deassembling them? I think it is important to consider that a 250euro professional carb cleaning 2 months ago must have included vacuum check and carb balance... at least I guess so, but maybe the mechanic wasn't this good.
About the engine and valves.
Given the amount of power I would guess the compression is there. The engine is brutal in delivering from the bottom to the top. My feeling is that the CVs are all there. The motorbike doesn't burn oil at all. At least not from the valves (open close gas check from the cans), there's no weird smoke. A bent valve would be really easy to spot right?
There's one more issue I notices, I didn't want to include it in this post to prevent confusion and because it is hard to descrive, but maybe is connected.
So: with cold engine (first 5-8min), I noticed few times something weird. I get the feeling that the engine is missing an ignition cycle, maybe only one of the cylinders. And at the same time I have the impression there's some mechanic distress somewhere in the leverages of the engine. Hard to explain, the two things are synched. I thought could be not ignited fuel that doesn't get compressed properly and stresses on the piston foot (don't know english proper names). It feels a bit like having a broken bearing on the crankshaft, in terms of feeling. But I think the crankshaft is fine, I made some stress test and couldn't reproduce the issue. But seems to be limited to low RPM and cold engine. I know that with temperature the metal dilatation would compensate for minor defects, but couldn't reproduce the problem while standing with the cold engine even stressing it (brakes and let the engine die - "hitting the head" don't know to call it ;) ).
So, to resume, you suggest:
-- To check somehow the carbs -- maybe I should put back the original filter, because with the Termignoni the bike is running dry. (carburation at the minimum is irregular).
-- To check if the cans are well attached and not in tension.
-- To check the connection of the engine - but the engine was never changed. There are no signs on the screws and so on. Only clutch was changed.
-- To check some internal parts of the engine - valves - but I would suppose that I would have noticed if there was a broken valve, a bent valve doesn't last this long and should be noticed I think (I never got one).
Re: Insane vibrations
"There's one more issue I notices, I didn't want to include it in this post to prevent confusion and because it is hard to descrive, but maybe is connected.
So: with cold engine (first 5-8min), I noticed few times something weird. I get the feeling that the engine is missing an ignition cycle, maybe only one of the cylinders."
Sounds like carb fart, where it seems to have sometimes an irregular cough / stumble in the low revs. Quite normal - just make sure idle is set to 1200rpm to lessen the chance of it stalling at low speeds.
Look in the workshop knowledgebase for how to balance carbs > http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=31
As for valves do a compression test > http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=17036
VTR1000F (Superhawk) Firestorm Service Manual PDF > http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 31&t=18025
and yes try a normal air filter. or at least service the K&N > http://www.halfords.com/motoring/car-pa ... eaning-kit
http://www.knfilters.com/cleaning.htm
So: with cold engine (first 5-8min), I noticed few times something weird. I get the feeling that the engine is missing an ignition cycle, maybe only one of the cylinders."
Sounds like carb fart, where it seems to have sometimes an irregular cough / stumble in the low revs. Quite normal - just make sure idle is set to 1200rpm to lessen the chance of it stalling at low speeds.
Look in the workshop knowledgebase for how to balance carbs > http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=31
As for valves do a compression test > http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=17036
VTR1000F (Superhawk) Firestorm Service Manual PDF > http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 31&t=18025
and yes try a normal air filter. or at least service the K&N > http://www.halfords.com/motoring/car-pa ... eaning-kit
http://www.knfilters.com/cleaning.htm
It may be that your whole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.
VTR Firestorm and other bikes t-shirts
VTR Firestorm and other bikes t-shirtsRe: Insane vibrations
Yep Carb fart spitting back through the airbox was my first thought too. All the issues with this bike seem to lead back to the carbs. Anyone can take carbs apart and stick them in an Ultrasonic cleaner and charge a small fortune, but not everyone can set them up right and tune the bike. professional is just a word it doesn't mean someone is but it can give a false sense of comfort. A carb sync will help both the carb fart and vibrations. And yes put a standard filter in.
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