Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Need advice on which oil to use or which tyre best suits you? Share your topic and get help here.
User avatar
Stephan
Posts: 983
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:58 pm
Location: Prague, Czech

Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by Stephan »

Chris58 wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:49 am Also, any opionions on the insanly thick .25" sleeve?? Cant find much info on pros/cons. It seems to me like it is a good thing, but won't disapate heat as quickly.
Only negative I can see is if it reduce cooling channels. If not, it is the same as oem cylinders, I suppose sleeve is made from cast iron, same as existing one.
User avatar
Chris58
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:57 am
Location: Canada

Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by Chris58 »

Yes its made of ductile iron, I heard because iron doesnt conduct heat as well as aluminum..it will run hotter. it's much thicker than the oem sleeve.
I cant see it being a issue at all though.

Now if i ever rebuild again, I can fit some big bore pistons :beer:
mik_str
Posts: 2149
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 10:45 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by mik_str »

while I acknowledge this is a moot point now that the sleeves have been inserted already, but are you aware if there was any possibility of having aluminum sleeves put in and then having them nikasiled after having them machined down to size?

just asking...
99 VTR1000F Firestorm, a.k.a. The Carbon Express
User avatar
Chris58
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:57 am
Location: Canada

Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by Chris58 »

Yeah, I did consider doing that.. It does seem like a good option.
Would be good for heat transfer, its claimed to last longer(but that's not always true) , could be used with a tighter clearence with a aluminum piston.

I personally would worry too much about the structural integrity of an aluminum sleeve and the possibility of chipping the coating etc. Its also not possible to fix any issues, you would have to resleeve and re-nikasil.

Update: sleeves were pressed in today with no issues 0.003 interference fit.
Attachments
Resized_20180117_174958.jpeg
User avatar
Chris58
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:57 am
Location: Canada

Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by Chris58 »

I just picked up my block from the machine shop, they made an error when measuring piston to bore clearence... He thought that clearence should be measured with .003 on each side of the piston. Its now .006 instead of .003.. :wtf: completely f'd up the build. $750 later and I'm back where I started.

Im probably sending pistons to get coated because I cant afford to redo the sleeve or buy new pistons. Im using .002 of TLMB coating (techline product) to take up clearence, and honing to fit.

Its supposed to be a long lasting permanent coating to take up clearence and reduce friction..

Anyone have experience with this coating or similar products?
User avatar
8541Hawk
Posts: 2066
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:21 am
Location: Bella Vista, AR

Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by 8541Hawk »

Chris58 wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:11 am I just picked up my block from the machine shop, they made an error when measuring piston to bore clearence... He thought that clearence should be measured with .003 on each side of the piston. Its now .006 instead of .003.. :wtf: completely f'd up the build. $750 later and I'm back where I started.

Im probably sending pistons to get coated because I cant afford to redo the sleeve or buy new pistons. Im using .002 of TLMB coating (techline product) to take up clearence, and honing to fit.

Its supposed to be a long lasting permanent coating to take up clearence and reduce friction..

Anyone have experience with this coating or similar products?
So the shop made an error and you still had to pay for the job? That just isn't right. :Ball Kick:
Loud pipes don't save lives, knowing how to ride your bike will save your life.
User avatar
Stephan
Posts: 983
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:58 pm
Location: Prague, Czech

Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by Stephan »

You mentioned possobility of big bore in future, now it is coming serious. Especially if second bore will be for free. I would sell the pistons and found new oem (maybe worn) ones from other bikes. Just check piston to valve gap or before final assembly.

What about 100mm from vtr sp? Or other bikes, you have wide range of choice now.
User avatar
E.Marquez
Posts: 635
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 1:27 pm

Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by E.Marquez »

Mate, if the shop made the mistake, the shop eats the repair cost. Anything else should have legal action attached to correct.

If you want to meet them 1/2, have them order a set of JE oversize pistons, re bore and hone and offer to sell the extra two pistons for them

Even DLC coating wears off a piston in use...how fast? i don't know . But Id suggest being upfront with the coater at what your trying to accomplish with the coating and then ask their opinion on if it will do what you want. Its their reputation at stake, Id bet if they feel it wont work, they will tell you.
oh and, find a new machine shop.. Piston wall clearance is never expressed as "per side" thats a mistake that never should have happened.. Sounds like the job was left to the new apprentice and no supervision.
Marquez Motorcycle Services
Solutions to recurring maintenance
Race/Adventure ride event prep
Post event services

Total Rider
Your path to a TX motorcycle license
And advanced Rider training
User avatar
Chris58
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:57 am
Location: Canada

Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by Chris58 »

Stephan wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:52 am You mentioned possobility of big bore in future, now it is coming serious. Especially if second bore will be for free. I would sell the pistons and found new oem (maybe worn) ones from other bikes. Just check piston to valve gap or before final assembly.

What about 100mm from vtr sp? Or other bikes, you have wide range of choice now.
I like that idea, most bikes have different wrist pin sizes...usually smaller. The storm is 0.945.
It would also be hard to find one with the proper compression height etc.

If anyone knows of a high compression 99 or 100mm piston with the proper pin size let me know, I do have free boring until this is sorted.

I heard something about Porsche pistons, but couldnt find any that look compatable. I also read that the sp1/2 pistons are a different wrist pin.

Any other ideas?
User avatar
Stephan
Posts: 983
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:58 pm
Location: Prague, Czech

Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by Stephan »

I would ty to find it in online catalogues of aftermarket piston producers like wiseco, je, woesner. Maybe this information is there.
User avatar
Chris58
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:57 am
Location: Canada

Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by Chris58 »

Stephan wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:49 pm I would ty to find it in online catalogues of aftermarket piston producers like wiseco, je, woesner. Maybe this information is there.
Thanks Stephan, So far ive tried wiesco, and je. Havent heard of woesner though, ill give that a try.
User avatar
8541Hawk
Posts: 2066
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:21 am
Location: Bella Vista, AR

Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by 8541Hawk »

2 more places to try if you haven't yet:
https://ariaspistons.com/index.html

http://www.cp-carrillo.com/
Loud pipes don't save lives, knowing how to ride your bike will save your life.
User avatar
Chris58
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:57 am
Location: Canada

Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by Chris58 »

I looked through alot of catalogs... the closest pistons I found were an xr600 big bore kit, xl600 & xr650L. They all have a 24mm wrist pin, you can get a 100mm bore, compression height is 1.15" (I measured the stock storm at 1.19")
So the stock 650 piston would work.. but would be around 9 to 1 compression(without doing the math). They do have high compression ones that may work around 10.5 to 1, but Id be concerned about how deep they might need to be fly cut.

I also own a xr600 with a big bore kit. The stock piston is around somewhere.. Ill have a closer look at it.

Side note:
This could be a viable solution for any turbo builds needing low compression.
:beer:
Attachments
imageproxy.jpg
User avatar
Chris58
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:57 am
Location: Canada

Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by Chris58 »

Well I recived my pistons from being coated. The crown coating was chiped around the edges out of the box, piston skirts had pitted spots from bubbles, and sagging in the coating. He was supposed to add .004 .. but there was an extra 0.007
When I called back to see wtf happened, he informed me that the chipping was from removing masking tape, and to just sand out the imperfections myself.
Having an incredably hard time finding honest quality work around here.
Ordering new 99mm pistons from JE and the machinist is going to bore and hone for free.
mik_str
Posts: 2149
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 10:45 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by mik_str »

99mm? what rings will you be using? the largest OEm rings are 98.5mm...
99 VTR1000F Firestorm, a.k.a. The Carbon Express
Post Reply