Seized/rounded chain adjuster

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jchesshyre
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Seized/rounded chain adjuster

Post by jchesshyre »

Hello, one of my chain adjuster bolts is seized and now the hex head is rounded off :redface

I have a fresh adjuster bolt, so as a last resort I'm going to attempt to undo it with penetrating fluid and a centre punch, but if this doesn't work is it possible to remove the whole chain adjuster from the swingarm (with the wheel out of course) and just put a new one in? I initially thought that the bolts go into the actual swingarm but it seems they just go into the adjusters, so if it's possible to get that out of the swingarm without first removing the bolt then I should be able to just buy a used adjuster and be good to go. I can't imagine I'm the first to encounter this scenario...
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MacV2
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Re: Seized/rounded chain adjuster

Post by MacV2 »

Your not...

Invest in a set of these... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IRWIN-5-Pce-E ... SwOrlZ3ci4

I had a simular issue these resolved it 1st go...They have proved useful since then as well...Well worth the outlay. IIRC this is simular to the set I got but there are other sets out there with more sizes in... Just serach 'Rounded nut removal.' :thumbup:

Also worth a go & have proved useful & had several 'I know what I've got to sort that out moments are these... https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Draper-79198-5 ... 1760825933

Die nuts for that thread that needs cutting but the standard Die tool is just too big to get in there & turn, these you use a socket... :thumbup:
Making up since 2007, sometimes it's true...Honest...
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MacV2
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Re: Seized/rounded chain adjuster

Post by MacV2 »

Oh & I think you'll find the adjuster bolt is threaded into an insert in the swinger. It's held in at the nut end with a circlip. So in theory if you can get the clip off the plate bit should move alowing you to get a grip on the bolt to remove it...However the bolt is specific to the aplication so you'd need to get a new bolt anyway...

I'd have to have a look but Frank may have a spare adjuster in stock...
Making up since 2007, sometimes it's true...Honest...
jchesshyre
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Re: Seized/rounded chain adjuster

Post by jchesshyre »

Oh awesome, thanks very much Mac!

I do already have two new bolts (the LH one isn't seized at all but I thought I may as well replace it as the hex head is not totally great) and two new circlips.

I can't quite work out how it fits together - what is the circlip actually doing, holding the bolt against the end of the swingarm? If I take the axle out and remove the circlip will I be able to just pull the whole adjuster unit out? If so then I'll definitely just get a new adjuster methinks as the threads in mine might be a bit rogered anyway (they're aluminium yes?).

I will see if I can get those nut removers (ow) although I'm skint at the mo and need to save cash for a new fairing and a new set of headers, so may try first with a centre punch.
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sirch345
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Re: Seized/rounded chain adjuster

Post by sirch345 »

I'm may be talking a load of rubbish here, but I don't think you will be able to wind the adjuster bolt out if you remove the circlip. The way I see it is the circlip is only there to stop the bolt disappearing into the adjuster should you need to move the wheel forward using the adjusters, plus aid in adjuster assembly would be my opinion. I think there is a fixed stop on the bolt that pushes the adjuster backwards when tightening the chain, so that fixed stop will mean the bolt can't come out through the rear end of the adjuster,

Chris.
jchesshyre
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Re: Seized/rounded chain adjuster

Post by jchesshyre »

Hmmmm...but is there a way of just getting the whole adjuster block out of / off the swingarm, bolt and all? If so I can just do that and get a new (used) one and not bother with unseizing the bolt, as used adjuster blocks are cheap enough.
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sirch345
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Re: Seized/rounded chain adjuster

Post by sirch345 »

My way of thinking is, if you remove the circlip and wheel spindle you should be able to take the adjuster off leaving the bolt still in the end of the a swingarm. You should then be able to get at that stop I mentioned in my previous post where it would be possible to use a mole wrench on it, along with your releasing fluid of course. I'm not 100% sure on this so don't blame me if I'm wrong :wink:

Chris.
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MacV2
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Re: Seized/rounded chain adjuster

Post by MacV2 »

According to the parts fiche...

https://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/a/hon ... a/swingarm

The bolt, adjuster plate & the circlip are seperate items...So with the circlip out of the way the plate should come out, spindle out obviously. That sugests that the bolt does in fact thread into the swingarm itself.

Get some Plus gas on the bolt to ease things along. Take the wheel out. Take the circlip off. The plate should come away. Mole grips on. Bolt out...

If you can get a decent bit of file action on the rounded head file two flats on & see if you can hammer a socket on.
Making up since 2007, sometimes it's true...Honest...
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VTRDark
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Re: Seized/rounded chain adjuster

Post by VTRDark »

sirch345 wrote: Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:43 am My way of thinking is, if you remove the circlip and wheel spindle you should be able to take the adjuster off leaving the bolt still in the end of the a swingarm. You should then be able to get at that stop I mentioned in my previous post where it would be possible to use a mole wrench on it, along with your releasing fluid of course. I'm not 100% sure on this so don't blame me if I'm wrong :wink:

Chris.
That's the way :thumbup: The circlip simply keeps the bolt attached to the bracket when removed so it does not fall out and get lost. I don't even bother with the circlips anymore as this means I can slide the bracket off the adjutser bolt when removing the wheel without having to undo the bolt. Note the bolt is unique to the application as Mac said so you cant use any old bolt with the same thread. It has a rounded shroud built into it that pushes against the inside of the bracket when adjutsed. The head of the bolt is also small enough to fit through the hole in the bracket that the threaded part passes through.

Your biggest worry is the soft thread in the swingarm that the bolt threads into. You really dont want to damage this thread as it's a new swingarm jobbie or thread insert. Remove the circlip, slide the axle bolt out and the wheel should slide straight off along with the adjuster brackets leaving the threaded bolt stuck in the swingarm. You can then use whatever method you wish to remove the bolt....molegrips or whatever but a bit of heat around the swingarm would help first.

Image

Image

Image

Image

I emailed Titan Classics a while back describing this problem bolt and asked if they could make some TI versions with a hex head along with an allen key insert on the end but they where not very responsive. I'm not sure the cost of the CAD work would make it worthwile for them. I think they could make quite a few sales but the part would not be cheap beacuse of the diameter of the TI rod required due to that shroud to cut a bolt.

I really wish somone could come up with a better design for chain adjustment.
==============================Enter the Darkside
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MacV2
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Re: Seized/rounded chain adjuster

Post by MacV2 »

''I really wish somone could come up with a better design for chain adjustment.''


It's used on loads of different Hondas inc things like NSR 250 SP's So Honda must have faith in them...



https://www.bike-parts-honda.com/microf ... =reference


Only about a Fiver with post...https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CBR ... art_46917/
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jchesshyre
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Re: Seized/rounded chain adjuster

Post by jchesshyre »

Many thanks for all this extremely helpful and extensive advice lads : )

I'm currently soaking the bolt/swingarm interface with penetrating fluid.

Is there anything I can do to minimise the risk of damaging the threads in the swingarm when I start trying to get it out?
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VTRDark
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Re: Seized/rounded chain adjuster

Post by VTRDark »

Only about a Fiver with post...https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CBR ... art_46917/
Yeh and about fiver P&P with DS :lol:

As for the swingarm thread, your doing all you can so hopefully the lube works it's way in and loosens things up otherwise heat is your friend. Just don't go forcing the bolt and snapping it off :eek2 The majority of damage to those threads is caused by folk cross threading the bolt so be careful when re-inserting. Another reason I disspose of the circlips as they don't need to be removed so often.
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jchesshyre
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Re: Seized/rounded chain adjuster

Post by jchesshyre »

All bloody sorted, I'm relieved to say. I took the adjuster block off and then mole grips on the rounded shroud did the job, with additional sprays of penetrating fluid as I was doing it.

The new one's in and the thread in the swingarm seems fine

Image

Now I just need to grease my shock linkage, replace my cracked headers (sounds like Cheekykev can help me out with that) and eventually find a new front fairing...then by then I imagine the next job will come up, like valve clearances or something...but by then perhaps the weather will have warmed up a bit and I'll have slightly more fun with it.

Thanks a million for your great advice with this Mac, Chris and Carl : )
jchesshyre
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Re: Seized/rounded chain adjuster

Post by jchesshyre »

...incidentally, my other bike, a '97 CB500, uses this arrangement for adjusting the rear wheel: https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/47 ... swingarm-2

I don't know if it's because I'm more used to it having owned a CB since 2008 (my current one is my second) but I find them a bit more intuitive to use and also they don't involve a steel bolt threaded into aluminium. I've never had one seize on me in 200,000 miles of riding in all weathers!
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sirch345
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Re: Seized/rounded chain adjuster

Post by sirch345 »

VTRDark wrote: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:53 pm That's the way :thumbup: The circlip simply keeps the bolt attached to the bracket when removed so it does not fall out and get lost. I don't even bother with the circlips anymore as this means I can slide the bracket off the adjutser bolt when removing the wheel without having to undo the bolt. Note the bolt is unique to the application as Mac said so you cant use any old bolt with the same thread. It has a rounded shroud built into it that pushes against the inside of the bracket when adjutsed. The head of the bolt is also small enough to fit through the hole in the bracket that the threaded part passes through.

Your biggest worry is the soft thread in the swingarm that the bolt threads into. You really dont want to damage this thread as it's a new swingarm jobbie or thread insert. Remove the circlip, slide the axle bolt out and the wheel should slide straight off along with the adjuster brackets leaving the threaded bolt stuck in the swingarm. You can then use whatever method you wish to remove the bolt....molegrips or whatever but a bit of heat around the swingarm would help first.

Image

Image

Image

Image

I emailed Titan Classics a while back describing this problem bolt and asked if they could make some TI versions with a hex head along with an allen key insert on the end but they where not very responsive. I'm not sure the cost of the CAD work would make it worthwile for them. I think they could make quite a few sales but the part would not be cheap beacuse of the diameter of the TI rod required due to that shroud to cut a bolt.

I really wish somone could come up with a better design for chain adjustment.
Good man Carl with the photo's :thumbup:
jchesshyre wrote: Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:43 pm All bloody sorted, I'm relieved to say. I took the adjuster block off and then mole grips on the rounded shroud did the job, with additional sprays of penetrating fluid as I was doing it.

The new one's in and the thread in the swingarm seems fine

Image

Now I just need to grease my shock linkage, replace my cracked headers (sounds like Cheekykev can help me out with that) and eventually find a new front fairing...then by then I imagine the next job will come up, like valve clearances or something...but by then perhaps the weather will have warmed up a bit and I'll have slightly more fun with it.

Thanks a million for your great advice with this Mac, Chris and Carl : )
Happy to hear you've got it all sorted, well done :clap:

Chris.
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