Larger friont mounted oil cooler

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E.Marquez
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Larger friont mounted oil cooler

Post by E.Marquez »

To go along with the larger "racing " radiators installed a few months ago I've been wanting to do a larger oil cooler and stainless steel braided lines using AN fittings for a clean, function no hose clamp install.

Project started and stopped a few times form more then a year while other things had priority.
I recently decided Im taking one day a week in the shop and only working on family bikes, no customer work at all.
So I woke up a few Sunday's ago and decided hey, not riding today, lets work on the SH.
The oil cooler was back on line with summer temps in Texas USA hitting triple digits every day, all day.

The Sertab Series 1 oil cooler I was planning on using was re purposed in 2016 (did I mention Ive been on this project for a while??? lol) for a unrelated project so I decided to try a less pricey option that might work for others more commonly.....well that and Im semi retired now and don't drop $500 at lunch time on a whim.

The 2nd and 3rd cooler came from a 2003 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 and 1998 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000n respectively.
The #2, 2003 cooler looked great in pics, and was either damaged in transit, or was a bait and switch.. Seller went poof after sale,so I ate $30.
#3 cooler though a early year came in overall good shape. The cooler comes with a rock guard, but that did nothing to stop 1~2mm sized rocks from getting in the fins. about an hour in the sonic tank, then an hour picking rocks out with a dull dental pick did the trick.
almost ready.jpg
The motor side fittings came out pretty good. I have two more sets of lines and AN steel fittings...I'll build those at some point to have spares or what ever.

The ZG1000 cooler uses banjo bolt fittings which makes it nice, and not need adapters of any kind.
standard 14MM X 1.5 banjo bolt and #6AN / 14mm banjo fittings work perfectly, available commonly and relatively cheap.
#6AN straight swivel hose end  2 needed.JPG
#6AN straight swivel hose end 2 needed.JPG (1.8 KiB) Viewed 4561 times
banjo fittings.jpg
banjo fittings.jpg (41.03 KiB) Viewed 4561 times
oil lines new and old.jpg
This in my opinion is as large as you would want to go in this location. There is .25" clearance at full suspension compression (springs out)
Any larger, or mounted any lower and you will have contact as well as block airflow to motor and radiators.

Even in sunny Texas with limited riding in the rain, the stock chrome plated steel lines were starting to show rust spots.
If seen pics of oil lines on UK bikes that the line rusted so bad it broke in half.
So out with the old, in with the new. Stainless steel braided -6AN lines and fittings. -6AN has the same ID as the stock hoses so is a prefect replacement size.
2 row vs 6 row.jpg
2 row vs 6 row.jpg (64.84 KiB) Viewed 4561 times
It is a tight fit..this pic is actually no longer how I decided to mount it, but it still shows the limited room to work with.
Hose path worked out better with the fittings at the top, so I rotated the cooler and made a new mount. Such is the deal with a custom install..... Folks only see the final product and ask why its so expensiveness to "just mount a cooler for them?" Why, because it took 18 hours to work the install till it actually fit and worked as needed, three mount revisions, two hose revisions and a lot of just looking at it to get inspiration for the next move.
Tight fit.jpg
Tight fit.jpg (62.07 KiB) Viewed 4561 times
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E.Marquez
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Re: Larger friont mounted oil cooler

Post by E.Marquez »

Three rides on it now since larger oil cooler installed.. Had to replace an O ring after the second ride when it started weeping oil at speed down the 130 Toll road...Something not seen in the leak check done post build and check at an idle.

The O ring looked ok, but was slightly undersized compared to a new one and at full oil pressure was allowing oil to push past.

So replaced both of them and 228 miles later all is well.
Observations using the OEM coolant temp gauge only as my 3 channel oil / coolant pre and post radiator temp monitoring set up has been delayed...

Temps seem to build slower to fan trip at 193 deg f , and the temps seem to hold about 10 ~12 deg f lower overall

With the OEM stock radiators I could get it to almost boil over pint in stop and go traffic this summer (108 ambient temps, in direct sun light, on hot tarmac road, no wind and more stop than go)

Had a similar traffic event yesterday coming home from Austin and never saw temps above 210...
Coolant with a 50/50 mix has a boiling point of about 223 deg f at sea level.
Using a 1.8 bar (26.1psi) radiator cap raises the boiling point another 13 deg. (1 deg f for every 2 psi)

So boiling point on this bike is 236 deg f, a temp I reached twice early this summer.
Adding the larger aftermarket radiators and the larger oil cooler seems to have kept the motor about 26 deg f cooler... That folks is a WIN.
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StormyRob
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Re: Larger friont mounted oil cooler

Post by StormyRob »

Great work Erik. Practical and definitely looks the part
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sirch345
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Re: Larger friont mounted oil cooler

Post by sirch345 »

Nice work Erik, thanks for posting and adding the good quality photo's :thumbup:

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Varastorm
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Re: Larger friont mounted oil cooler

Post by Varastorm »

Nice work, looks spot on :thumbup:

Really thorough write up & some very good info.

I'm looking into increasing the oil cooler size to compensate for a smaller water radiator.

The timing concerning this posting is excellent, thanks again E.Marquez.
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fabiostar
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Re: Larger friont mounted oil cooler

Post by fabiostar »

Nice tidy looking work Erik :thumbup: .... going larger on the cooler is one of my winter jobs here aswell.
the older i get,the faster i was :lol:
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Re: Larger friont mounted oil cooler

Post by mik_str »

Nice write-up :)

Been running a larger (4-row) cooler from an EX400 quad (same as SP-2) and it's been fine. Ironically, the bracket I made for it some years ago broke last week, so I had to fab another.

Of course, we don't get the nuclear fusion-like temperatures that Texas gets but the larger cooler, Samco hoses and in-line cooler do a fine job of keeping my 12:1 comp. ratio engine in check temperature-wise...

My next OCMD project will likely involve getting custom braided lines made for the oil cooler...
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E.Marquez
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Re: Larger friont mounted oil cooler

Post by E.Marquez »

mik_str wrote: Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:36 pm My next OCMD project will likely involve getting custom braided lines made for the oil cooler...
The only hard part of that is the Motor side oil line fittings.
I looked off and on 2 years for an off the shelf alternative, but in the end Im happy I did not find anything.... The sets I made from OEM oil line fittings and Steel weld on AN adapters are tits (did I get that right???? :lol: )

It takes just a bit of destructo to get the OEM fittings off the lines, cut them down as needed.
Then drill the AN fittings to fit the tube end of the OEM oil line fitting, braze or silver solder them together, shoot um with some paint,,,and PRESTO AN oil line fittings matched to our motor.
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mik_str
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Re: Larger friont mounted oil cooler

Post by mik_str »

It's pretty well the path I have embarked on (picked up the requisite OEM line ends), just not in a big rush at the moment...
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E.Marquez
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Re: Larger friont mounted oil cooler

Post by E.Marquez »

I guess I never said what weld on AN fittings I used and was just asked so...

I used a -6AN weld on male fitting brazed to the funky Honda fitting after I cut off the end.
Earl's Male Weld Fitting Size: -6 AN
Manufacturer's Part Number:967106ERL

The the AN fitting has to have the hole on the weld side enlarged to fit the tube as I remember it. As your brazing it on (well I did) interference fit not needed so I just did it with a drill of the size just over tube size..
a 3/8" drill is = 9.525 so likely I used that. in all but the most precision drilling machines, the slight oversize a regular drill bit will make should work nicely on a fit to that 9.52 tube.

Hope that helps, if I missed something you need, hit me up ...
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8541Hawk
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Re: Larger friont mounted oil cooler

Post by 8541Hawk »

It does look like a nice set up but I do see one issue that might come up.
With the lines mounted at the top of the cooler, it would mean that during an oil change the cooler would remain full of dirty oil.
You would have to come up with a way to drain the cooler but either removing it and turning it upside down or removing the feed line and using compressed air to blow it out.

It might not be an issue or could be a pain, it is just something to keep in mind :thumbup:
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E.Marquez
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Re: Larger friont mounted oil cooler

Post by E.Marquez »

Thanks
Valid point, but No issue at all in my case.....the entire oil system is purged with compressed air during an oil change.

The "benefit" and why I did it that was is, no drainage from cooler while sitting without needing a restrictive anti drain back valve in the piping.

For me, no dry starts and no restrictive anti drain back valve is well worth a shot of compressed air when its on the lift over the drain pain. Air is free. The other things cost money in the near term, or long term.. :lol:
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8541Hawk
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Re: Larger friont mounted oil cooler

Post by 8541Hawk »

Understandable though with these bikes there really isn't a need for anti drain back valve as the stock system is designed for the oil cooler to drain each time the engine is shut off.
This is why you are told to wait to check the oil level, you need to give time for the cooler to drain.

They also took into consideration the "dry start" issues by designing the oiling system with 2 separate circuits. The main one feeds the engine internals, while the second stage\circuit feeds the oil cooler only.
So the engine always "sees" oil pressure first, then the cooler gets pressure. This is why the stock system has no anti drain back and you get instant oil pressure at fire up even though the cooler is empty by design each time.

Again there is nothing wrong with the mounting method. You just need to keep in mind that you will need to have a process to drain the cooler of old oil when doing an oil change. :thumbup:
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Re: Larger friont mounted oil cooler

Post by KermitLeFrog »

A couple of thoughts on this. I'm not sure how compressed air would fully evacuate a larger cooler with inlet and outlet both at the top but that's by the bye.

Also, what about oil level. The existing oil level marks assume all the oil from the cooler drains into the sump. But only does it not now but the cooler contains more oil than the OEM. Easy to overfill perhaps?
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E.Marquez
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Re: Larger friont mounted oil cooler

Post by E.Marquez »

KermitLeFrog wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:18 am A couple of thoughts on this. I'm not sure how compressed air would fully evacuate a larger cooler with inlet and outlet both at the top but that's by the bye.

Also, what about oil level. The existing oil level marks assume all the oil from the cooler drains into the sump. But only does it not now but the cooler contains more oil than the OEM. Easy to overfill perhaps?
Thanks for the feedback>

Oil level is checked at the sight glass, and that shows, well oil level in the engine, makes no difference what oil is in the oil passages, hoses or cooler..Its a check for what the level is in the motor.
And this cooler has 89cc more oil volume over a stock system..(yes I calculated it then measured to confirm) 89cc is nothing, no issue at all even if it were "overfilled"

Having measured what comes out in an oil change, Im positive Im getting as much or MORE oil out the way I'm doing it then most will get by a "normal" oil change of just letting it drain from pan plug and replacing the il filter.

If you want more oil out of your standard system, apply air pressure (regulated to about 30psi) to the oil filter port...and watch how much more drains out the oil pan drain.
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