Clacking at low Revs - CCTs or Clutch?

[B120CR]

Hi there, very new here so please bear with me....

I may have answered my own Q by reading the helpful posts, seem CCTs are a nuisance!

I have a 97 firestorm with 34k miles which covers 70 miles daily, every working day of the year. It does get pushed along but obviously within the Law(!)

When I throttle off and revs drop roughly below 2k I can hear a (quite loud) chattering. It seems to stop when the clutch lever is pulled. It cant be heard on tick over alone but can whilst engine is revved.

Clutch seems to work ok and no engine running probs, just this noise which is starting to make me CCT paranoid as most!

I do all of my own work but not experienced in 4 stroke / V-twin motors. My level of spanners is wheel bearings, forkseals and a very grubby manual.

When I changed the oil 500miles ago there was no evidence of nasties.

Please help, cant afford major faults as my fuel and tyre bills eat my wages in this current climate.

Thanks

[Beamish]

Check out the CCT thread, if gives you all the info required to check/replace the CCTs. Does sort of sound like CCT/Cam Chain noise but at the mo it appears to have not affected the timing. Get it looked at now! Reasonably quick and cheap fix if caught before timing is affected. I am not writing off other possible causes but not worth ignoring a well known Honda issue.

[B120CR]

Thanks Beamish..... I'll probably be back with more hinderance!

[Beamish]

Thanks Beamish..... I'll probably be back with more hinderance!

I am a mere mortal but Sirch and freinds are from planet VTR, they worship at the altar of the twin cylinder. They will be along soon enough to sort out your woes.

[sirch345]

Beamish is dead right Get it looked at now! ASAP It certainly sounds like it could be a CCT on the way out, and as Beamish says (if it is a CCT) caught early enough is a relatively cheap fix. The CCT's tension alters at approximately 3,000 rpms, so if the noise is noticeable from 3,000rpms and down (as when changing down and slowing down for a junction etc) I would say it is most likely a CCT has failed (broken spring). The noise sounds like a slapping noise, it's the cam chain flapping about in the chain tunnel. It's heard when the engine is on the over run.

Chris.

Thanks Beamish..... I'll probably be back with more hinderance!

I am a mere mortal but Sirch and freinds are from planet VTR, they worship at the altar of the twin cylinder. They will be along soon enough to sort out your woes.

That's a cracker

Chris.

[Beamish]

Beamish is dead right Get it looked at now! ASAP It certainly sounds like it could be a CCT on the way out, and as Beamish says (if it is a CCT) caught early enough is a relatively cheap fix. The CCT's tension alters at approximately 3,000 rpms, so if the noise is noticeable from 3,000rpms and down (as when changing down and slowing down for a junction etc) I would say it is most likely a CCT has failed (broken spring). The noise sounds like a slapping noise, it's the cam chain flapping about in the chain tunnel. It's heard when the engine is on the over run.

Chris.

Thanks Beamish..... I'll probably be back with more hinderance!

I am a mere mortal but Sirch and freinds are from planet VTR, they worship at the altar of the twin cylinder. They will be along soon enough to sort out your woes.

That's a cracker

Chris.

Just noticed my schoolboy typo error (freinds ) I before E except after C.

[B120CR]

OK - The million dollar question.......
Genuine Honda CCTs or Manual?!!!
Tempted to order genuine straight from Silvers for speed and ease. Must fix this week as I do high mileage daily.
Thanks for your posts.
Is it really as easy as locking the CCT and changing or do I need to remove valve covers and set motor at TDC etc?
Thanks again.
Hope u guys are out there in the sun burning some fuel 2day, as for me its no ride out, at home with twin boys and broken twin (VTR)!!

[Pete.L]

Is it really as easy as locking the CCT and changing or do I need to remove valve covers and set motor at TDC etc?
Thanks again.

Defo set to TDC with the covers off the first time.
The valve springs are powerful enough to cause the cams to turn as soon as the tensioner is removed. This will throw the timing out and, if you don't realise it, as soon as you turn the engine on the pistons will hit the valves and bugger your engine.
By following the ctt process it may take a little longer but it will save you a big headache :wink2

Pete.l
manual or honda tensioners? Which do ya fancey. They both have thier pro's and con's. I was a manual man but they can cause more stress on the engine if not installed correctly.

[sirch345]

OK - The million dollar question.......
Genuine Honda CCTs or Manual?!!!
Tempted to order genuine straight from Silvers for speed and ease. Must fix this week as I do high mileage daily.
Thanks for your posts.
Is it really as easy as locking the CCT and changing or do I need to remove valve covers and set motor at TDC etc?
Thanks again.
Hope u guys are out there in the sun burning some fuel 2day, as for me its no ride out, at home with twin boys and broken twin (VTR)!!

Before you go removing the CCT's however you must follow the instructions in the link below:-
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8326

You'll have to decide on which way you go regarding Genuine Honda CCTs or Manual?!!! You could do as I have and some others have done and that is fit a stop into the standard CCT's depending on how mechanically minded you are.

This is what I did, I think this is the same idea as Del's (delmeekc)

(1) Set-up engine on compression stroke at TDC aligning all timing marks just the same as if you were replacing the CCT's.

(2) I made up a copy of the Honda locking key, details from the Haynes workshop manual. Using the key turn the worm in the rear CCT clockwise 1/4 of a turn and lock off, then remove CCT. On the front CCT turn the worm clockwise 1/2 a turn and lock off, then remove the CCT.
(The difference of 1/4 turn for the rear and 1/2 a turn for the front CCT is due to the fact that one CCT tightens up and the other slackens off when in use. So basically I've allowed 1/4 of a turn free play, allowing for expanding/shrinking of the different metals etc as they get hot when in use.)

(3) Next I removed the plunger pin so you can remove the plunger head see diagram below.

(4) You then need to work out what length rod you need to fill space 'A' see diagram. I used a piece of aluminium rod only a fraction smaller than the inside diameter of the plunger itself.

(5) Once you have the correct length rod you can then put it all back together.

[/quote]

Chris.

[B120CR]

Thanks you guys, your knowledge and help is great (& almost slightly confusing!!)
Because of time and the fact I use the bike daily I'm gona go Honda genuine for now. Wont take me long before I need to service again @ 18k per annum.

Im guessing I need to order some valve cover gaskets so not to get caught out once Ive started pulling apart and not got the bits I need.

I'm going in Friday having boked the day off!

Thanks again. When successful I will buy you all an e-beer! If not successful you'll be witnessing a grown man sob in the loss of his bike and his work transport!

Cheers, Martin

[sirch345]

Hi Martin,
You shouldn't need new valve cover gaskets as they are the re-usable type. However you will need two CCT (cam chain tensioner) gaskets.

Make sure you follow the instructions in this link from the 'The Workshop Knowledgebase' :-
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8326

Chris.

[B120CR]

Thanks Chris
Printed off instructions (de-structions!) from thread, ordered bits and looking forward to delving in and learning more about my bike.
Excellent support from you and this forum, thanks a million.
I look forward to sharing my success once this little job is out've the way & am keen to become a regular member and share some banter etc. Oh', and ofcourse Ive a few more questions to beat around!
Cheers (all)
Til then,
Martin

[tony.mon]

Once you've passed the CCT initiation test and retimed it successfully you'll be an expert!

Good luck, take it easy and double-double check everything.

[sirch345]

Martin,
Good luck with it
Printing off the procedure beforehand is a good idea also using a digi camera can be of help (if you think you won't remember how certain parts go back) if you take some pic's as you go.

Very good advice from Tony:-
take it easy and double-double check everything.

Chris.

[B120CR]

SUCCESS! 2 x new CCTs fitted, no noisy clacking noises anymore!
Thanks for all of your help/comments. Found your info invaluable and enjoyed being hands in as opposed to hands on for a change!
Fired-up first time and running lovely.
Down-side, had to drill out a bolt in the air-box securing the intake trumpet, placed rags everywhere to keep swarf out of no-go areas. And, after removing airbox twice, checking for snagged cable/s, upon putting everything back together, my throttle wont return.(?) Ran it up the road when all done and still no joy, any ideas please?
As for the e-beer..... Umm-Eeer, havnt worked out how to insert a pic of a pint either!!
CHEERS!