SP1 white smoke - loads of it

[Zakalwe]

Can you skim the head on an engine with gear-driven cams (like the SPs)?

I'm struggling to see how a petrol additive could do this mush damage TBH....did you see the temp gauge going sky high?

[sirch345]

I'm struggling to see how a petrol additive could do this mush damage TBH....

I've been thinking the same thing Unless it's up-set one of the sensors or fuel injectors. Did you use the redex that's recommended for engines with fuel injectors

Chris.

[Zer0Zer0]

ok so like twenty odd years ago i got my first city & guilds, in motor vehicle craft studies.
and i remember being shown how to clean out the carb and give the engine a type of pseudo de-coke. with Redex... and the amount of white smoke that was exhausted was incredible.
we did this by tipping a small amount of redex directly into the carb, and blipping the throttle connection. i think maybe the injectors will take longer to push the redex -fuel mixture through the system so you might get white smoke for as long as you have it in the fuel.. ?? :wink2

[Hankie]

If you got coolant in the exhaust then white smoke from the Redex is no longer an issue. It's possible the gasket was all but gone before the Redex went in and carbon was the only thing sealing a gasket split and Redex 'cleaned' it out... You won't know until the head is off of course, but if true it would have failed soon anyway. Hope the mating surfaces are not too eroded where the split happened.

[Dean O]

never noticed it running hotter than normal & the cooling fan still kicks in when it should so I don't understand how it could've overheated anyway.
my only hope is that its still redex coming out of the exhausts & that the empty coolant reservoir is coincidental & due to a leak - a highly unlikely scenario.
talking of coincidences its the 1st time I've added redex to the SP & if the head gasket has blown then its gone within 30 miles - and having since read up on effects of the stuff, it does burn far hotter than fuel so it may well have destroyed the head gasket.
I'll be at FSM's in a couple of hours & we'll try adding some coolant & watching for bubbles, pull the plugs etc. if it ain't obviously blown we can drain the fuel & put some fresh in. but I'm really expecting the worst tbh.

[Zakalwe]

never noticed it running hotter than normal & the cooling fan still kicks in when it should so I don't understand how it could've overheated anyway.
my only hope is that its still redex coming out of the exhausts & that the empty coolant reservoir is coincidental & due to a leak - a highly unlikely scenario.
talking of coincidences its the 1st time I've added redex to the SP & if the head gasket has blown then its gone within 30 miles - and having since read up on effects of the stuff, it does burn far hotter than fuel so it may well have destroyed the head gasket.
I'll be at FSM's in a couple of hours & we'll try adding some coolant & watching for bubbles, pull the plugs etc. if it ain't obviously blown we can drain the fuel & put some fresh in. but I'm really expecting the worst tbh.

Sounds coincidental to me. Alternatively, their could be a coolant leak, which is causing problems and you have only noticed it cos you were looking?

Whip the fairing off, and inspect the LH radiator. If the SP gets dropped or falls off the stand, then the rads take a bashing. On mine, the LH rad had damaged the mount bracket and was causing a slight weep when the engine was hot. Check the coolant level in the RH radiator as well.

How is the bike riding? If it is down on power you will feel the difference (don't ride it obviously until the coolant level has been checked).

Ohh and stay away from Redex (snake oil). Modern petrol already has detergent additives to keep valves clean.

[sirch345]

Ohh and stay away from Redex (snake oil). Modern petrol already has detergent additives to keep valves clean.

That's my opinion too

Chris.

[Dean O]

mike refilled the cooling system (took virtually 2 litres) & we ran it for 10 minutes or so. the warmer she got the steamier she got. she's leaking coolant from the exhaust at every joint (full akrap all sprung joints). coolant level dropped significantly in rhs rad & I guess below the thermostat level in the lhs cos the temp rose to 78*c & held there - would explain why I never noticed temp being too high (that said it did get up to 99* before the fan cut in when riding the bike to mike's on saturday evening).
dropped a bit of oil out & no sign of coolant in it. likewise no sign of oil in coolant.
been for a word with a bike mechanic one of mike's mates recommended (he's so busy I can't book it in til june 17th ) & he reckons its very likely down to the redex cos it burns so hot & I added it about 18 miles before topping up the fuel - there was maybe only 1.5 gals of petro; in the tank.
anyway, thats it on the subject til its been stripped & assessed in 7 weeks time.
in the meantime, anyone else tempted to give their injection system a precautionary spring clean WITH REDEX - DON'T!

[Zakalwe]

mike refilled the cooling system (took virtually 2 litres) & we ran it for 10 minutes or so. the warmer she got the steamier she got. she's leaking coolant from the exhaust at every joint (full akrap all sprung joints). coolant level dropped significantly in rhs rad & I guess below the thermostat level in the lhs cos the temp rose to 78*c & held there - would explain why I never noticed temp being too high (that said it did get up to 99* before the fan cut in when riding the bike to mike's on saturday evening).
dropped a bit of oil out & no sign of coolant in it. likewise no sign of oil in coolant.
been for a word with a bike mechanic one of mike's mates recommended (he's so busy I can't book it in til june 17th ) & he reckons its very likely down to the redex cos it burns so hot & I added it about 18 miles before topping up the fuel - there was maybe only 1.5 gals of petro; in the tank.
anyway, thats it on the subject til its been stripped & assessed in 7 weeks time.
in the meantime, anyone else tempted to give their injection system a precautionary spring clean WITH REDEX - DON'T!

Bejaysus. Not good news at all. So it actually burned the head gasket/head??

Gutted for ya fella. sh1t luck. With a bit of luck, it will only be the head gasket that's FUBARd, so it might be a fairly simple repair.

Should warn as many people about this as possible IMHO.

[Dean O]

yep cheers zak
hoping its gonna be nearer 600 than a grand, but I assume there's a lot of labour involved even if it is just the gasket.
I've always assumed blown headgaskets = water in oil / oil in water / bubbles in expansion chamber / misfire from fouled plugs / overheating

. . . . but in this case the only symptom is coolant from the exhaust

[Zakalwe]

yep cheers zak
hoping its gonna be nearer 600 than a grand, but I assume there's a lot of labour involved even if it is just the gasket.
I've always assumed blown headgaskets = water in oil / oil in water / bubbles in expansion chamber / misfire from fouled plugs / overheating

. . . . but in this case the only symptom is coolant from the exhaust

If it's only a head gasket, then I wouldnt think it would be that expensive to sort. Do you know which head it's coming from?

If its a single head, then its a strip down, whip the head off (no cam chain to worry about) and stick the gasket on. £600 seems a bloody lot for a head gasket!

[Dean O]

its the front one - which I believe is the most accessible but there's loadsa bits to come off to get at it (mike says even changing the sparkplugs is a major job )
hope yer right about costs but at £50-£60 per hour plus gaskets/pressure test/skim or new head I'm prepared for the worst

[Zakalwe]

its the front one - which I believe is the most accessible but there's loadsa bits to come off to get at it (mike says even changing the sparkplugs is a major job )
hope yer right about costs but at £50-£60 per hour plus gaskets/pressure test/skim or new head I'm prepared for the worst

From memory, you have to drop the oil cooler (fairing v-piece off obviously). It helps to take the front mudguard off to make a bit more room (wheel out will help). Once you have done that then the head is straight in front of you.

<edit> here's a rear head for £100. He might have the front as well? Clicky

[sirch345]

yep cheers zak
I've always assumed blown headgaskets = water in oil / oil in water / bubbles in expansion chamber / misfire from fouled plugs / overheating

In normal circumstances (is there ever normal circumstances with an IC (internal combustion engine ) it depends which part of the head gasket fails. The head gasket is sealing up three different departments of the engine, (1) the oil ways (2) the water ways (3) the internal combustion chamber.

It sounds (in your case Dean) as if the head gasket has failed between numbers (2) and (3), that's why there's no sign of water (coolant) in the oil or vice-versa.

The only thing that is puzzling me (as you say) is why you don't have any misfire from the spark plug

Chris.

**EDIT**
The more I think about this the less uncertain I am about it. If the head gasket has failed between numbers (2) and (3) as I first thought that would mean the water system would be getting pressurized every time the piston was on the compression stroke. As there's been no mention of that I presume that's not happening.

[Beamish]

Good vid for everyone but Deano As Chris said the gasket may just have blown enough to open a port in the cylinder water jacket. Shite luck buddy, the Redex must have run as hot as the sun!