Bike cranks but won't fire

[telomere]

I just registered here so first of all hello everyone .

I have a 2005 Firestorm which cranks but will not fire. After returning from a massive trip down to Philip Island (4500 km all up, no problems at all for the entire trip) I parked the bike and left it for two weeks. When I went to start it again, the engine will turn over but won't start. I have got a couple of backfires while doing this but it hasn't run at all. This is an Australian model bike -- not sure if there's any difference between Aus and UK models?

Here's what I've tried:

• 100% sure the kill switch is set to "run"
• Tank is 2/3 full
• Thought I might have flooded it, so left for 20 mins and tried again - no change.
• Disconnected front plug lead, connected it to a spare plug. Spark is fine.
• Removed fuel tank, checked that fuel is coming out. Fixed a kinked drain tube but I can't see how that would have caused the problem, and indeed it still doesn't start

So now from my (and my Dad's) reasoning it could be:

• Bad fuel
• bad plugs
• some other carb problem?

The next thing I am going to try is draining the fuel and replacing it, but I was hoping someone could enlighten me on a few things:

1. Is there a trick for removing the tank? My tank assembly does not match the picture I have in my service manual (which is for 98-03), nor the picture in the fiches on the "Workshop knowledgebase" sticky thread. On my bike, the fuel tap is connected to the frame of the bike rather than the tank itself, so when you disconnect the main hose to remove the tank, fuel flows out of that hose unobstructed. I got around this by clamping the hose, but surely there is a more elegant way to do it?
2. Is there a way to drain the fuel out of the float bowls without removing the carbs? I was hoping to not have to drain the coolant...
3. Once I get fresh fuel in there, how do I prime the float bowls as there is no tap to turn to prime? Just crank it over for a while?

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me has some advice

[bazza696]

Telomere, sorry to hear of your problems but I have had a mild version in the past with my storm, I have found that she does not like sitting on her side stand for long periods and when you do firer her up its a bit of a black art.

I never turn the throttle, if its cold or been a while I pull the choke out a little not all the way. Its like treating it like a fuel injected bike. she does not firer up first time but I do persist and it comes eventually.

others might have a better explanation than me.

as for the carbs there should be a little screw in the bottom of the carbs with a nipple on the bottom, this is how you drain the fuel from the carbs, its difficult to fit a tube on one of the carbs but not impossible, the other is a doddle.


to refuel the carbs, on mine you could either turn her over cause the vacuum from the engine opens the fuel tap, or pull the pipe off the tap, attach another and suck on it to recreate the vacuum. I just turned mine over till she fired.

I hope between all of us on here we can help you sort a solution.

[sirch345]

On my bike, the fuel tap is connected to the frame of the bike rather than the tank itself,

Welcome aboard Telomere

Unless I'm mistaken here that sounds very much like a modification someone else has carried out and not a standard fuel tap. My bike is the earlier version and has an on/off tap built in to the fitting that bolts to the bottom of the fuel tank, but iirc the later ones didn't have an on/off tap fitted so may be that a previous owner fitted a tap him/herself.

When you've given the bike a few good goes on starting it with the starter button, I would suggest whipping out a spark plug to see if it's wet with petrol, as it may not be getting fuel.

Just another thought, your model has the HISS system so I wonder if the bike is in an immobilized state and that's why it won't fire up.

Perhaps someone else with the HISS system can give some more info on that

Chris.

[pariah]

Hi and Welcome mate.

If I was you I would try starting the big with additional power from a set of jump leads. The extra power will allow you to turn the engine over for a longer period and might help it fire up.
They take a lot of starting in colder weather and will quickly drain the battery.
Also . remove a plug and earth it the the cylinder head to check if you have still got a good spark.
Just my thought. But worth a try .

[telomere]

Wow thanks for the warm welcome and quick replies everyone.

but iirc the later ones didn't have an on/off tap fitted so may be that a previous owner fitted a tap him/herself

Sorry I may have messed up my terminology here; what I'm talking about isn't a tap you can turn on and off, but just the part where the vacuum, "fuel in" and "fuel out" tubes are connected to -- this might more properly be called a fuel valve rather than a tap? Mine definitely doesn't have anything you can turn on or off (at least that I can see).

as for the carbs there should be a little screw in the bottom of the carbs with a nipple on the bottom, this is how you drain the fuel from the carbs, its difficult to fit a tube on one of the carbs but not impossible, the other is a doddle.

Can I do this with the carbs on the bike or do they have to be removed?

Just another thought, your model has the HISS system so I wonder if the bike is in an immobilized state and that's why it won't fire up.

Fairly sure this isn't the problem, as I've tested the spark by connecting the front plug lead to a spare plug (easier than removing the actual plug) and cranked it over -- get a good spark this way. HISS would cut the spark and the starter motor if I'm not mistaken?

Tomorrow I'm going to get a battery charger so I can have another go at it (battery is about dead after all the cranking) so I'll let you all know how it goes. Thanks for your suggestions so far .

[gilson]

I bet the battery isn't 100%. Either charge it for a few days or get a new one. Jumpstarting as previously suggested will also help it... I bet it fires with a full charge...

[bazza696]

Wow thanks for the warm welcome and quick replies everyone.

but iirc the later ones didn't have an on/off tap fitted so may be that a previous owner fitted a tap him/herself

Sorry I may have messed up my terminology here; what I'm talking about isn't a tap you can turn on and off, but just the part where the vacuum, "fuel in" and "fuel out" tubes are connected to -- this might more properly be called a fuel valve rather than a tap? Mine definitely doesn't have anything you can turn on or off (at least that I can see).

as for the carbs there should be a little screw in the bottom of the carbs with a nipple on the bottom, this is how you drain the fuel from the carbs, its difficult to fit a tube on one of the carbs but not impossible, the other is a doddle.

Can I do this with the carbs on the bike or do they have to be removed?
This can be done with the carbs in the bike, because when I was having trouble before someone suggested water in the carbs, so I drained them in situ, one is easy from the choke side, the other is fiddly to get to

Just another thought, your model has the HISS system so I wonder if the bike is in an immobilized state and that's why it won't fire up.

Fairly sure this isn't the problem, as I've tested the spark by connecting the front plug lead to a spare plug (easier than removing the actual plug) and cranked it over -- get a good spark this way. HISS would cut the spark and the starter motor if I'm not mistaken?

Tomorrow I'm going to get a battery charger so I can have another go at it (battery is about dead after all the cranking) so I'll let you all know how it goes. Thanks for your suggestions so far .

[bazza696]

I bet the battery isn't 100%. Either charge it for a few days or get a new one. Jumpstarting as previously suggested will also help it... I bet it fires with a full charge...

this is a good bet, cause mine was having problems, it was turning over but not enough to fire up immediately, charged the battery and was fine for a bit then got worse. done some research and found that the battery was dying due the regulator/rectifier over charging the battery.

To check this measure the voltage across the battery when the bike is running, it should be around 12.5V to 13.5V, mine was charging at nearly 19V, and you could hear the battery fizzing, I was luck it did not go bang as they are a sealed unit.

[sirch345]

Just another thought, your model has the HISS system so I wonder if the bike is in an immobilized state and that's why it won't fire up.

Fairly sure this isn't the problem, as I've tested the spark by connecting the front plug lead to a spare plug (easier than removing the actual plug) and cranked it over -- get a good spark this way. HISS would cut the spark and the starter motor if I'm not mistaken?

Tomorrow I'm going to get a battery charger so I can have another go at it (battery is about dead after all the cranking) so I'll let you all know how it goes. Thanks for your suggestions so far .

I would agree if you have a spark at the plug then I doubt it's anything to do with the HISS system. Not trying to teach you to suck eggs, but make sure you get a proper bike battery charger.

As already said a good well charged battery is essential on these big twins. Lets us know how things go once you've got the battery fully charged.

Chris.

[Stratman]

For my two penneth, you don't have to drain all the coolant to remove the carbs either. You lose a bit from the carb heater pipes but not much, especially if you bung them up with something.

Stating the b. obvious, you need a)fuel and b) a spark then you get c) a bang! So, checking each of these in turn you should be OK. If it still doesn't fire, do you have compression? If there is no compression then = no bang. Doubt you would lose compression on both cylinders though.

I'd try jumping it from a car as they can be pigs to start after having been left for a while and the wrong technique just floods it. IMHO a new bike battery doesn't have the capacity for you to keep crnaking it when flooded without running down.

[cupasoop]

Fairly sure this isn't the problem, as I've tested the spark by connecting the front plug lead to a spare plug (easier than removing the actual plug) and cranked it over -- get a good spark this way. HISS would cut the spark and the starter motor if I'm not mistaken?

That shows you have a spark with the spare plug but not with the plugs that are already in, they could be knackered. Should take them out and see what condition their in.

Mine used to backfire occasionally when I left it for a few weeks but it always started in the end. I'll hazard a guess that you've flooded it.

[tonyb]

i would say check the plugs in the bike, might as well change for the cost

[telomere]

Update -- got a battery charger and battery is removed and charging now.

I believe I can see the float bowl drain spigots but just wanted to check with you guys before fiddling around with them (as there is no mention of them in the manual).

Is my picture below correct? There is another spigot on the opposite side too for the rear carb, if I have got it right.

[telomere]

IT RUNS!!!

Thanks for the help everyone.

I charged the battery up and had another go, did some troubleshooting swapping spark plugs in and out (spark good on both old and new plugs), drained float bowls (but didn't actually replace the petrol that was in the tank) and after a LOT of cranking it fired and ran fine.

For reference it fired with about 80% choke and 1/3 throttle, took it for a ride and everything seems fine.

Buggered if I know what was actually wrong with it! I have put it down to a combination of flooding it on my previous attempts, then not cranking for long enough on the subsequent ones.

[bazza696]

I would suggest checking the voltage across the battery whilst the bike is running to check that the rectifier is not buggering the battery and is charging it correctly. Should be around 12.5 to 13.5 volts.