Alternator Housing Centre bolts

[vtrbarmy]

Only bought my Storm recently and after tony.mons excellent workshop day last Saturday, thought I'd prepare for when my manual CCT's arrive - so dropped the lower fairing offer to look at the alternator housing and......bugger. The centre (big) bolt centre is totally gone, last owner has chewed it up something rotten, no centre for the allen key to grip into (front bolt cover didn't look to good but did come out).

Anyway - looking for suggestions for best way to get the centre out. Looks like he's tried to use a screwdriver before as the outside is all chewed as well - in fact all in all there isn't a lot of purchase to be had.

My thoughts at present are either to
(a) take the whole alternator casing off and drill through the centre, hopefully it will get to a point where I can get some purchase on it, esp if I drill a slot? Then refit casing (new gasket of course)
(b) araldite an allen key into the remainder of the bolt centre and hope it will hold enough to get it out

But is there an easier way please (i don't mind taking the casing off, but if I don't have to even better!) Don't think a screwdriver will work due to reasons above.

Also - if I do take the casing off - will oil come out (some bikes they do, some they don't). My Storm is upright at present on paddock stands.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[benny hedges]

you could try drilling 2 small (maybe 6mm) holes in it, whack 2 m6 bolts through the holes and turn it with a bar between them.
when you get your new one dont overtighten it as it only has to nip the o ring, and put some grease on the thread.
brb 1 min - see if ive got a spare one

yes . it's got a little scuff on it but it'll clean up ok. pm ur addy & i'll post it int mornin

might be worth trying to chisel it out before you drill holes, cos you will get swarf in the casing and will defo need a new gasket when you take the casing off, and you might damage the windings if the drill goes through...
dont go mad with the hammer tho cos the casting it screws into is like wafer thin - the one im sending, the threaded bit broke away when i dropped the bike, you will see how thin it is.

if you decide to take the casing off to clean inside, david silvers got new gaskets for a few quid, but have an upside down bucket ready to support the casing and stator so you don't strain the wires.

you might drop a bit of oil but it will only be a bit.

the smaller cap is made of steel so it's a bit harder wearing than the big one, which is made of white dog poo.

[vtrbarmy]

Mate you are an absolute diamond, pm sent thanks very much

Was watching when tony refitted Dans Saturday - gently does it - clearly previous owner of my storm put a whole new meaning on the word gently!

[Wicky]

Time for the cold chisel and special Honda hammer to unscrew the pesky plug

[vtrbarmy]

Yep, still have Triumph Service tools numbers 1 & 2, but hoping it doesn't come to that....

[tony.mon]

One thing I've tried before which worked was to use a centre punch to tap two dents in the cap above the cast bit which is threaded.
Now I'll try to make that into English....

If you look at the cap in profile you'll see that there's quite a bit of overlap, that is the cap outside edge is quite a bit larger diameter than the threaded bit.
Imagine where the threaded bit is, and make your indentations there.

That way you're applying force to the strongest bit of the cap.

Make two indentations at 180 degrees to each other (opposite sides).

Now you'll need a mate...
Counting out loud, tap the punches in synchronisation (in the correct direction, of course) so that the cap will turn in the "undoing" direction- anticlockwise. (At this point everyone's making little circles in the air with their finger).

The advantage is that instead of the force being applied to produce a sideways movement on the cap as well as the rotational force, pushing the threads into their grooves, because there's two opposing forces acting together they cancel except for the rotating force.

Anyway, that's the theory, all I can say is that it works, as long as you keep in time!

When you come to re-install the cap use some silicon sealer on the threads and do it up using the little end of the hex key in your hand, which limits the amount of force you can use to tighten it.

Lastly, no, oil won't come out.
If any does, your oil level is WAY too high

[Wicky]

My Cheesey Plug

[tony.mon]

It's turning into a "whine and cheese" event:


But mine got thoroughly hammered.

[vtrbarmy]

Cheers all and thanks Tony I'll try the centre punch bit - yep watched how you refitted Dan's last Saturday, so a bit of instant gasket and gently gently is the watchword.

had another go earlier - bloke before has clearly had a go a trying to chisel off with a screwdriver (with no luck I may add), its well and truly stuck on there and not budging dammit. I'll give all these suggestions a go for sure, one way or another it's got to come off.....either centre punch method, drill some holes, insert screws and try to lever undone, or casing off and drill out to get some leeway on it - job for weekend now.

Ah well these little things sent to try us, guess I have to remember it is 13 years old....patience and perseverance will out

[vtrbarmy]

UPDATE - HURRAH it's off. After looking at the picture Tony posted of his went out and thought just one more go, so got dremel out and cut some small slots to give the screwdriver some purchase around the cover and then went round tapping each with screwdriver and hammer and suddenly - yep she came free. Cover is well and truly buggered, but hopefully the one benny is kindly sending me should be here in the next day or so, so can get her back together.

Must admit was a bit heart in mouth hitting it in case I slipped, but all is well and she's off with no damage to casing.

thanks to all, new one will go on gently nipped up with a bit of instant gasket (as per '"tony's tips" from the workshop day).

So Tony - that's 2 bikes at least sorted from the workshop day - if I hadn't seen you refit Dans and listened to what you said, then I might still be struggling.

Thanks very much to everyone for your advice and support and to benny for the replacement cap - what a top place this is!

[benny hedges]

(At this point everyone's making little circles in the air with their finger).

before doing that, try this.
stand on your left leg with your right foot just off the floor.
with your right arm extended, draw a number 6 in the air with your forefinger - repeatedly.
while you are doing this, make clockwise circles with your right foot.

if you succeed in doing this you will find the timing cap has come undone on it's own, and fairies have fitted a shiny new one for you

tip - before smacking the cap with a hammer - have a look at the thickness of the casting it screws into.
a broken off piece is on it's way to you and will land in the morning hopefully.
the casting is very thin and brittle and a hard enough blow will crack the entire centre off, meaning you have an unrideable bike until you replace the casting

*oops - just saw youve done it - yippeeeeee!
while it's off you could do with a bit of tcut on that casing lol!
replacement sent 1st class at 8am today

have you tried the old one of pouring a boiled kettle over the outside of the casting - it will soften any jointing paste that may have been used and slightly expand the threaded bit.

thb i wouldn't use gasket sealer on the cap at all - i'd just lightly grease the threads and let the o-ring do the sealing, just in case you get the same problem next time you try to take the cap off.

[tony.mon]

thb i wouldn't use gasket sealer on the cap at all - i'd just lightly grease the threads and let the o-ring do the sealing, just in case you get the same problem next time you try to take the cap off.

Lol, Benny, funny how many people draw circles in the air before undoing a bolt.....

The idea with gasket sealant isn't to seal it- as you said the O-ring does that job.

But grease on the threads will eventually be rinsed off with hot splashed oil, and my theory is that sealant won't shift and so will continue to keep the threads from corroding together.

If the CCT springs get their corrosion from condensation forming inside the engine, then this condensation, even in tiny amounts, will eventually find its way into the cap threads, as the seal keeps the condensation in.

But maybe it's best just to do the cap up very gently, and to prevent it coming undone when riding due to vibration- sealant is your man.
I think that Loctite would just make the problem worse.........

I must admit, mine gets disturbed relatively frequently, for one job or another, and so it's not a problem, but I'm aware that often they're not undone for years at a time, and they just get comfortable in one position, and don't want to move.

(and well done, VTbarmy, perseverance pays off every time )

[benny hedges]

The idea with gasket sealant isn't to seal it- as you said the O-ring does that job.

But grease on the threads will eventually be rinsed off with hot splashed oil, and my theory is that sealant won't shift and so will continue to keep the threads from corroding together.

see where you're coming from with that.
there are non hardening thread sealants that would work as well, or even a thin winding of pfter tape.
did you try the number 6 in the air thing tho?? highly amusing

[vtrbarmy]

Cheers guys, I agree with your observations - looks like I was lucky perhaps with the cover coming off, but rather than wacking away with a hammer I was using a series of very sharp taps which I think eventually freed it off - fortunately!

Hmm the question of how to stop it sticking without it coming loose is a good one. I agree that in time any grease will be washed away - likewise gasket sealant is not the answer for sealing it. From the way it "suddenly" came loose, I suspect that what is sticking is the rubber sealant ring rather than the thread - in looking at the (remains) of mine for instance there is no corrosion as, say, one might find with casing bolts.

So I'm going to experiment with the new one, using the same theory as when one fits an oil filter in that I am going to lightly grease the rubber ring (as well as the threads) and tighten it up so it is firm but not overtight. With the ring lubricated it should, same as an oil filter, not "stick" to the aluminium housing. I'll give it a while and then check it. If it is 'tight' to get off then my theory is shot - if not then this may be the answer. Time will tell and I'll report back.

Once again though guys, many thanks for all your advice and assistance, still finding my way around the 'storm, so all this is good education for me, overseen by those in the know.

The other problem I found the other day was the triangular bracket under the swing arm - not only ha dthe bolt seized in, but also the rod that runs through the bearings (in fact one of the needle rollers had collapsed entirely - looks like it hasn't been greased since it came out of the factory. I would image that this also could be a common fault, as it's not something typically one would take to bits. New bearings are on the way from the dealer (together with new rod as that was not serviceable), but it still took me over 2 hours of careful persistent work to get the bolt out and then the rod from the bearings.

So....
CCTs - manual ones on order
reg/Rec - on lookout for one from an R6 (is there any particular year one should look for, they do seem to be different?)
triangular bearings sorted (all others good)
dodgy cap cover removed ok from alternator cover
all nuts and bolts in process of being re-torqued up according to manual.

Whilst everything is stripped down, is there anything else i should be checking that is a 'common' failure point? Just thinking that whilst it's stripped down, I may as well check everything that is a possible failure.

Got to say this place rocks - so much knowledge and assistance - makes the whole 'storm experience just that little extra special

[Wicky]

Rear swing shock linkage - been there last year....

http://gallery.me.com/spaderunner#100172

Also try checking your rear brake caliper sliding sleeve - part no. 12 as this can get corroded and seize even within the rubber sleeve if not lubed.

http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm/Mod ... KE_CALIPER

And if you haven't done already check the starter motor under the rubber boot for corrosion. If water gets past the seals into the motor then wave it goodbye. Lastly if you have the fairing off, check the 4 screws that hold the headlight in the front fairing cowl. Make sure they are copper greased up/replace with ss hex head bolts