VTR1000 firestorm front cylinder problem

[TUG]

Front cylinder exhaust is alot cooler than the rear one, what should i be looking at to fix it?
Forgot to mention this is with the bike stood and the plugs are new, plug cap is new, the K&N thats fitted is also clean.

[benny hedges]

what's it like on the road? does it still pull like a train or feel a bit limp?
and the sound? exhaust pulse from the back of the can?
(wouldn't really tell you much as they are teed together in front of the swing arm...)
just wondering if both cylinders are firing?

would have to hear it really to tell if it sounds like a single or a full fat vee twin.
could be carb balance is well out and starving one pot, so the other is doing all the work.
if it is, it will be well noticeable when you've sorted it lol - watch for the headlight pointing at the sun then you know it's fixed!

[TUG]

When i first got it it felt powerful to me but the lads at the shop noticed it was flat, it will wheelie off the throttle in first but not in second? if that helps but it used to do that anyway before i fixed the plug cap issue. I'll balance them tommorow at work and inspect my plugs, can you give me a bit of info?
Does one have to be stronger than the other for example i know a few V twins do, also what do the idle mixture screws need to be set at?
Fun times ahead for me then? I havent had a good look around but is there a manual i can download off here?

[benny hedges]

is there a manual i can download off here?

if you look at http://www.carlsalter.com/motorcycle-manuals.asp you will find free workshop manuals for lots of bikes including the storm, sp1 sp2 and stacks more - worth bookmarking that site tbh.
i posted a direct link to the storm manual but crouton knows where lol - help yourself, theyre free!

i'd leave the mixture alone tbh and just check th balance.
m8s bike was the same and it was because of a torn carb diaphragm in the back cyl.
went like stink again after he fixed it - took 30 mins to sort

nice looking bike btw

[TUG]

Did i post up a picture on here? i cant remember, and i suppose so, i'll just look it over, i know what to look for its just finding the dam things lol, Mixtures will be well out with the K&N and the scorpion cans, probably running quite lean i would imagine.

[TUG]

Ok! so i tried to balance my carbs but they cept falling off.... jokes aside i made a little balancer pipe so it wont take me all my dinner to strip it down looking for them lol. will let you know.

[TUG]

Right, its still runing on 1 and a half cylinders! Also the valves are tight on the front cylinder not had time to check the rear ones.
Its starting to bug me now, i'm beginning to think its burned out its rings or the carbs are absolutely F*$ked, not to mention my irrational fear of CCT failure.
Tight valves anything to be worried off? They still have clearance mind.

[benny hedges]

what do you mean the valves are tight????
how do you know they are tight?
what valves do you mean?
It's most probably sumat & nothing - it's only a machine - it worked before so it can be fixed

[Stratman]

I think he means the clearances are small. Of course it matters, otherwise Honda wouldn't specify tolerances. You can't start to diagnose a "problem" till you make sure everything basic is as it should be, then you can start to isolate other factors. Why would you expect a failed CCT? Do you have the "clacking" sound from a loose cam chain? Are the carbs set as standard? Is it burning oil/blue smoke - that might indicate rings.

I would suspect that standard jets/airfilter and balance carbs would make the world of difference.

Back to basics then start from there!

[tony.mon]

In my experience the front cylinder valve clearances go larger when the valves are bent, due to the fact they can't sit fully back in their seats.
So if your clearances are too small then it seems unlikely that you have valve damage.

When you say that the clearances are tight, which ones, inlet or exhaust, and what measurements do you get?

And is it being measured at the FT mark?

The only small worry is that burnt valve seats can cause the valves to sit deeper into the head, giving the effect of closing up the clearances.
Burnt seats will also reduce compression, which might just give the same results as you're getting.

If it's exhaust side (the usual culprit) then quite often the exhaust is HOTTER on that cylinder, as burning combustion gasses are travelling down the pipe instead of only hot but spent gasses.
If it's the inlet side then you'd get a lot more pitting back through the carbs.

But it's a circular problem usually; the clearances close up a bit and so when hot you get a negative clearance.
Because of this the valve doesn't close properly and therefore it burns the seat out furhter, increasing the problem, etc, etc.

However, I'm not sure that this is your problem.
It may be carbs, and you need to pull the carbs apart to see what jets are fitted in order to be sure.

But it could be that your valve timing is a tooth out on one cylinder- I'd check that first.

If carbs and valve timing both check out ok, then you need to pull the head off; it's either head gasket, valves, or rings on the affected cylinder.

But I'd suggest a compression test to be sure, you can get a good idea of whether it's rings or valves by doing a dry test then a wet one. A wet compression test is where you add a few cc's of oil down the plug hole before screwing the gauge in, this has the effect of assisting the rings to seal for a few revolutions, and will give a different reading wet:dry, whereas the dry "valve" reading will stay the same.

Cunning, isn't it?

Oh. also try swapping spark plugs over to see if the problem swaps over as well....

[TUG]

I measured them with the help of someone whos been in the trade for ages as i'm a trainee techy myself, and tony your assumption is correct in the tight valves, i think the seats have been bedded and are now in need of some grinding paste and propper adjustment as it looks like they have never ever been touched. If i rev the bike up it starts to fire on the 2 cylinders as it should, i'm going to eliminate the carbs once and for all saturday night with a few brews (newcy ones preff) because this is my first V twin i'm more than happy to tear it down and sort it for my learning curve. I do it to get paid and i do it because i enjoy it so why not eh?

[tony.mon]

Compression test will show whether it's carbs or compression.

Check for whether it's had a DJ kit fitted and is now back on standard cans.

Lastly it's not too unusual to find that an engine which has had mild valve damage(usually front exhaust) has had new CCT's fitted and is then sold on because the owner doesn't want to change or rebuild the head.

But check that cam timing!

[TUG]

I'll check all that when i've sorted the carbs, My balance pipe i made is filling with fuel like a resivoir if i remove the plug in my pipe the bike starts to run alot better. Its got to have alot of factors causeing alot of its fluffyness and poor idling, when cracking open the throttle it seems ok, its just idle.

[TUG]

Fixed it. took me 10 mins to fix and was as i thought. Guess, clue was running cooler...

[tony.mon]

Well done, wheelies any easier now?