Hi there,
Firstly have done a search on this but it seems that there used to be a sticky to guide on how to change oil but the link seems to be broken,
Am thinking of changing fork oil as I'm sure it hasn't be done for several years. Firstly, is it worth doing and am I likely to notice much difference?
Secondly, how do you do it?.! And how difficult is it? Haynes manual only shows how to take them off and disassemble them, which is not necessary right?
If anyone has a link to a guide or can be bothered to explain what is required it would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
James
Changing fork oil
Re: Changing fork oil
Ideally you take off the fork legs and disassemble them.
You need to remove the spring before you can compress the leg, and that's when you measure the air gap at the top of the leg, between the oil level and the top of the leg.
I use a long screwdriver with a bit of electrical tape around the stem at the right length; you can dip it deeper to see when you're getting near the right level while filling.
However (and I haven't tried this, so there might be problems I haven't foreseen) you can get away with taking one leg at a time out in situ.
Firstly, remove bellypan , put bike on rear paddock stand, loosen front wheel bolt, front brake calipers, mudguard bolts and brake pipe bolts in the fork legs. Oh, and the little bolt that holds the split in the brake lines onto the headstock if you have only one brake line running form the master cylinder at the handlebar end.
Then support weight of bike with a jack with a piece of flat wood on it under the sump.
That lifts the weight off the front wheel, once you remove the front wheel you should find that the bike will balance with no weight on the fornt, so you are able to remove the fork legs one at a time to work on them with the fairings in place.
Remove:
Brake calipers both sides (tie them to oil feed pipes with string)
Front wheel
Mudguard
It's going to be quite precarious; so be very careful it doesn't fall over, especially when undoing or tightening bolts on the headstock.
Now you can remove the bolt holding the brake line splitter from the headstock, take off the two circular clips holding the clip-ons to the fork legs, and loosen the nuts under the top fork adjusters (the ones with two flats at the very top of each leg where you set the preload).
Then undo the Allen bolt on the clip-ons and remove, making sure that you tie them up so that the fluid in them stays the right way up- (saves bleeding them later).
Loosen the 12mm bolt on one side of the top yoke and bottom yoke and remove the fork leg on one side only. They're usually stiff and need to be twisted first one way and then the other to get them out, but are sometimes loose enough to just drop out so be careful.
Follow the Haynes fork stripping instructions; it's quite good enough.
Remove fork spring and collars etc, noting which way they fit.
Empty out old oil, pump a few times to make sure it all comes out.
Then fill with new, and reassemble.
Then do the other side, and put everything back in reverse order.
It'll take you a couple of hours, and don't forget with new oil you'll probably want to re adjust your compression/rebound and preload settings.
Search on here to find people's solutions for which weight oil , and consider fitting uprated springs if they're not already done.
Let me know if I've missed any important bits........
You need to remove the spring before you can compress the leg, and that's when you measure the air gap at the top of the leg, between the oil level and the top of the leg.
I use a long screwdriver with a bit of electrical tape around the stem at the right length; you can dip it deeper to see when you're getting near the right level while filling.
However (and I haven't tried this, so there might be problems I haven't foreseen) you can get away with taking one leg at a time out in situ.
Firstly, remove bellypan , put bike on rear paddock stand, loosen front wheel bolt, front brake calipers, mudguard bolts and brake pipe bolts in the fork legs. Oh, and the little bolt that holds the split in the brake lines onto the headstock if you have only one brake line running form the master cylinder at the handlebar end.
Then support weight of bike with a jack with a piece of flat wood on it under the sump.
That lifts the weight off the front wheel, once you remove the front wheel you should find that the bike will balance with no weight on the fornt, so you are able to remove the fork legs one at a time to work on them with the fairings in place.
Remove:
Brake calipers both sides (tie them to oil feed pipes with string)
Front wheel
Mudguard
It's going to be quite precarious; so be very careful it doesn't fall over, especially when undoing or tightening bolts on the headstock.
Now you can remove the bolt holding the brake line splitter from the headstock, take off the two circular clips holding the clip-ons to the fork legs, and loosen the nuts under the top fork adjusters (the ones with two flats at the very top of each leg where you set the preload).
Then undo the Allen bolt on the clip-ons and remove, making sure that you tie them up so that the fluid in them stays the right way up- (saves bleeding them later).
Loosen the 12mm bolt on one side of the top yoke and bottom yoke and remove the fork leg on one side only. They're usually stiff and need to be twisted first one way and then the other to get them out, but are sometimes loose enough to just drop out so be careful.
Follow the Haynes fork stripping instructions; it's quite good enough.
Remove fork spring and collars etc, noting which way they fit.
Empty out old oil, pump a few times to make sure it all comes out.
Then fill with new, and reassemble.
Then do the other side, and put everything back in reverse order.
It'll take you a couple of hours, and don't forget with new oil you'll probably want to re adjust your compression/rebound and preload settings.
Search on here to find people's solutions for which weight oil , and consider fitting uprated springs if they're not already done.
Let me know if I've missed any important bits........
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
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benny hedges
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Re: Changing fork oil
might be an idea to lift the fork seal dust caps while you've got the legs off and have a look for early signs of leakage, especially if you wheelie a lot and are no good at gentle landings like me!
once the forks are off it only takes like 30 mins to change the seals, and you have to fit new oil, so it might worth doing the job anyway for the sake of a few hextra poinds.
if you cba stripping the forks completely to get the seals out, use the big woodscrew method - pop a hole in the old seal, screw a woodscrew or self-tapper into the hole and drag it out with pliers.
(taking care not to go in at an angle and mark the plating)
then if you take the inner spring out of the old oil seal, you can use it to tap the new one home.
any pitting in the plating - clean up with some thinners and use quicksteel as filler then sand with the finest wet & dry you can find, then solvol.
they might be old fashioned, but rubber fork gaiters are a good investment imo, protect from stonechips and the elements which will eventually rip the seals to bits and fail mot.
you won't see them anyway under the fairing...
i personally think the storm would handle better if you fill the forks with sand instead of oil and replace the standard springs with a yard brush handle cut to size.
once the forks are off it only takes like 30 mins to change the seals, and you have to fit new oil, so it might worth doing the job anyway for the sake of a few hextra poinds.
if you cba stripping the forks completely to get the seals out, use the big woodscrew method - pop a hole in the old seal, screw a woodscrew or self-tapper into the hole and drag it out with pliers.
(taking care not to go in at an angle and mark the plating)
then if you take the inner spring out of the old oil seal, you can use it to tap the new one home.
any pitting in the plating - clean up with some thinners and use quicksteel as filler then sand with the finest wet & dry you can find, then solvol.
they might be old fashioned, but rubber fork gaiters are a good investment imo, protect from stonechips and the elements which will eventually rip the seals to bits and fail mot.
you won't see them anyway under the fairing...
i personally think the storm would handle better if you fill the forks with sand instead of oil and replace the standard springs with a yard brush handle cut to size.
You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when posting something which you later rely on in quote. Anything you do say may be ripped to sh*t.
Re: Changing fork oil
Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated. Tony do you remember all this stuff of the top of your head? Very impressive!
So do you think it is worth doing? I can't afford new springs unfortunately so will just changing the oil make any notable difference do you think?
So do you think it is worth doing? I can't afford new springs unfortunately so will just changing the oil make any notable difference do you think?
Re: Changing fork oil
Yes you will notice that they will be firmer, especially if you use heavier oilGiddsy wrote:Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated. Tony do you remember all this stuff of the top of your head? Very impressive!
So do you think it is worth doing? I can't afford new springs unfortunately so will just changing the oil make any notable difference do you think?
Two bikes, still only four cylinders!
Re: Changing fork oil
Great response from tony.
One thing extra...speak to someone like kais Suspension, and get forks for your weight. If you have the forks apart then you might as well get them sprung correctly.
One thing extra...speak to someone like kais Suspension, and get forks for your weight. If you have the forks apart then you might as well get them sprung correctly.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
Re: Changing fork oil
Sadly, yes, I just think my way through the job while looking at the bike through the window!
But I missed the seals- good point.
BTW, you can remove the seals quite easily without damage by clamping the brake caliper mounting points on the lowers in a vice (With padding so they're not marked) and using the stanchion as a shock hammer, once the spring's out, the damper's removed and the oil's drained.
This pulls out the slider bearings as well, and if you've been noticing a slight "knock" as you put the brakes on, but the steering head's ok; that's the parts that need replacing.
And that's a complete fork overhaul done, unless you're going to change damping shims, in which case just send your complete fork legs to Roger!
Re heavier fork oil, it's not guaranteed to make things better.
There are two damping variables, fork oil weight and the air gap above the oil.
For myself I find that the standard forks bump compress too easily, and hitting a bump while braking means that you use all the spring and feel a jolt through the handlebars. If you just use heavier oil, you might find that although this reduces the speed at which the forks fully compress, it's the spring that is at fault here, and you'll feel a harsher ride as more high-speed bumps will be transferred to the bars.
While this is fine for track, it might not be so good for the road.
Personally I found that progressive springs (WP) 7.5 wt oil and a 140mm air gap works fine for my weight and riding style, after much playing around. Four lines showing and damping adjust screwed 1/2 turn in from standard. 14 (well, 15
) stone rider. Tried heavier oil, up to 15 wt, and found that it was too harsh. BTW, all weights in 2.5 increments are available from Opie Oils- (FREE SHIPPING AND DISCOUNT AVAILABLE ATM!) see the workshop thread. But if you're stuck you can mix different weights of the same brand/spec oil to make what you want; i.e. equal amounts of 15 and 10 gives 12.5. One litre will do both sides.
If you want to play, have a look at: http://www.gostar-racing.com/informatio ... set-up.htm
Not about VTR's, but the principles are the same, except we don't have separate compression and rebound damping.
But I missed the seals- good point.
BTW, you can remove the seals quite easily without damage by clamping the brake caliper mounting points on the lowers in a vice (With padding so they're not marked) and using the stanchion as a shock hammer, once the spring's out, the damper's removed and the oil's drained.
This pulls out the slider bearings as well, and if you've been noticing a slight "knock" as you put the brakes on, but the steering head's ok; that's the parts that need replacing.
And that's a complete fork overhaul done, unless you're going to change damping shims, in which case just send your complete fork legs to Roger!
Re heavier fork oil, it's not guaranteed to make things better.
There are two damping variables, fork oil weight and the air gap above the oil.
For myself I find that the standard forks bump compress too easily, and hitting a bump while braking means that you use all the spring and feel a jolt through the handlebars. If you just use heavier oil, you might find that although this reduces the speed at which the forks fully compress, it's the spring that is at fault here, and you'll feel a harsher ride as more high-speed bumps will be transferred to the bars.
While this is fine for track, it might not be so good for the road.
Personally I found that progressive springs (WP) 7.5 wt oil and a 140mm air gap works fine for my weight and riding style, after much playing around. Four lines showing and damping adjust screwed 1/2 turn in from standard. 14 (well, 15
) stone rider. Tried heavier oil, up to 15 wt, and found that it was too harsh. BTW, all weights in 2.5 increments are available from Opie Oils- (FREE SHIPPING AND DISCOUNT AVAILABLE ATM!) see the workshop thread. But if you're stuck you can mix different weights of the same brand/spec oil to make what you want; i.e. equal amounts of 15 and 10 gives 12.5. One litre will do both sides.If you want to play, have a look at: http://www.gostar-racing.com/informatio ... set-up.htm
Not about VTR's, but the principles are the same, except we don't have separate compression and rebound damping.
Last edited by tony.mon on Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
Re: Changing fork oil
Muchos gracias again for all your input everyone... Now let's see if it really is as easy as you make it sound!! I suspect not...
Re: Changing fork oil
He has a haynes manual in the toiletGiddsy wrote:Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated. Tony do you remember all this stuff of the top of your head? Very impressive!
So do you think it is worth doing? I can't afford new springs unfortunately so will just changing the oil make any notable difference do you think?
Re: Changing fork oil
only additional comment on top of the very comprehensive instructions from tony, is to be sure you set the oil refill quantity by using the oil level measured from the top of the tube...........not by adding the spec volume of oil.
A syringe and a length of screenwash hose cut to the desired fill level are very handy at this point.
oh and also remember that the oil level is measured with the springs removed
EDIT
Sorry tony, you had that instruction in the top of your 1st mail and I missed it ..............so ignore everything I just added except the syringe and tube, that is a great method to set the levels, ...........I generally slightly over fill, then draw out the fluid with the syringe till both forks are the same.
It may help if your wife works in teh NHS and has access to some great big syringes
A syringe and a length of screenwash hose cut to the desired fill level are very handy at this point.
oh and also remember that the oil level is measured with the springs removed
EDIT
Sorry tony, you had that instruction in the top of your 1st mail and I missed it ..............so ignore everything I just added except the syringe and tube, that is a great method to set the levels, ...........I generally slightly over fill, then draw out the fluid with the syringe till both forks are the same.
It may help if your wife works in teh NHS and has access to some great big syringes
Last edited by AMCQ46 on Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AMcQ
Re: Changing fork oil
I don't go to the toilet- which explains why I'm so fulla.....bazza696 wrote:He has a haynes manual in the toiletGiddsy wrote:Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated. Tony do you remember all this stuff of the top of your head? Very impressive!
So do you think it is worth doing? I can't afford new springs unfortunately so will just changing the oil make any notable difference do you think?
Anyway wouldn't it be a wizard wheeze to ride each other's bikes at the great Summer Meetup, to try different settings/solutions?
Bring a note of you suspension mods, tweaks, oil weight and air gap, and by the end of the weekend you'll know what feels right for your own bike.
[Or the one you're building in your head while waiting for the money to turn up from somewhere!]
I'd be very interested to ride a Rogered one- (yes, I expect there's a comment on its way about that particular phrase)
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
Re: Changing fork oil
or in the case of the way your storm handles, I'ill take the panels, fairing and tank off mine and put them on yours then I will ride yours home.`yellow clashes with my hair, my red is better'tony.mon wrote:I don't go to the toilet- which explains why I'm so fulla.....bazza696 wrote:He has a haynes manual in the toiletGiddsy wrote:Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated. Tony do you remember all this stuff of the top of your head? Very impressive!
So do you think it is worth doing? I can't afford new springs unfortunately so will just changing the oil make any notable difference do you think?
Anyway wouldn't it be a wizard wheeze to ride each other's bikes at the great Summer Meetup, to try different settings/solutions?
Bring a note of you suspension mods, tweaks, oil weight and air gap, and by the end of the weekend you'll know what feels right for your own bike.
[Or the one you're building in your head while waiting for the money to turn up from somewhere!]
I'd be very interested to ride a Rogered one- (yes, I expect there's a comment on its way about that particular phrase)