pilot screw setting

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Pete.L
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Re: pilot screw setting

Post by Pete.L »

Tug Said
Pilot settings are 1 5/8 turned out.
Cheers Tug, that confirms my old grey cells are still working occasionally. 5/8 th is my 40 mins settings :thumbup:
I would only recommend this as a base setting for std pipes and each one will vary slightly due to differences in machining or even altitude.

Pete.l
My new ride is a bit of a Howler and I love to make her Squeal
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TUG
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Re: pilot screw setting

Post by TUG »

I'm running high level scorpion cans and a K&N filter and mines on standard settings, plugs seem a nice tanned brown.
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sirch345
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Re: pilot screw setting

Post by sirch345 »

TUG wrote:I'm running high level scorpion cans and a K&N filter and mines on standard settings, plugs seem a nice tanned brown.
TUG,
Your plugs seem to be a good colour to me.

That's very interesting. Are your high level Scorpion can's race can's (no baffles in the back end as standard), or are your's being used with baffles fitted :?: The reason I ask is quite a few members on here seem to experience a flat spot in the rev range once a K&N air filter is fitted using standard carb settings (like yourself) and after market can's. So I am wondering if you're experiencing the same :?:

To get over this problem (flat spot) they either revert back to a standard air filter or try to get it set up properly on a dyno.

Chris.
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TUG
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Re: pilot screw setting

Post by TUG »

Yea, if i'm giving the bike alot of stick when i hit 7000rpm it won't rev out anymore. I was wondering if a dynojet kit would fix this?
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benny hedges
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Re: pilot screw setting

Post by benny hedges »

TUG wrote:when i hit 7000rpm it won't rev out anymore.
mmmmh, didn't someone else have this problem a short while ago and it turned out the cam timing was 180 deg out???
that would explain your flatness...
might be worth checking it out :think:
You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when posting something which you later rely on in quote. Anything you do say may be ripped to sh*t.
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sirch345
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Re: pilot screw setting

Post by sirch345 »

benny hedges wrote:
TUG wrote:when i hit 7000rpm it won't rev out anymore.
mmmmh, didn't someone else have this problem a short while ago and it turned out the cam timing was 180 deg out???
that would explain your flatness...
might be worth checking it out :think:
Yes I agree well worth checking, unless it didn't do that with the standard air filter fitted,

Chris.
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TUG
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Re: pilot screw setting

Post by TUG »

If my timing is out a full 180 degrees what would of caused that? my CCTs are fine, no sounds and i'll check them with the bolt off the middle of them if i have to.
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sirch345
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Re: pilot screw setting

Post by sirch345 »

TUG wrote:If my timing is out a full 180 degrees what would of caused that?
Failure of a CCT, or someone trying to fit new CCT's could result in the valve timing to be out by 180 degrees :!:
It doesn't mean you have a problem with your CCT's for the timing to be out. It just means that if the bike has had a replacement CCT or both even at some point, the valve timing was not set properly when that was done.

You have to follow the correct procedure for renewing or replacing a CCT.

Chris.

PS. Do you know how your bike runs with a standard air filter :?:
tony.mon
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Re: pilot screw setting

Post by tony.mon »

To see if it's the air filter, just run the bike without a filter fitted. It won't fuel correctly, but should still rev to the red line easily enough.
Couple of miles won't do any harm, unless you're downwind of a volcano.....
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
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TUG
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Re: pilot screw setting

Post by TUG »

I'm a bit lost here, the air filter flows more air, and the exhaust mean it will breathe easier and run leaner some more, so won't i need to just adjust my needle heights? seems alot more simpler than removing my air filter thus running it leaner possibly causing an overheating issue?
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Re: pilot screw setting

Post by tony.mon »

TUG wrote:Yea, if i'm giving the bike alot of stick when i hit 7000rpm it won't rev out anymore.
This is the bit that worries me, assuming you mean in all the gears, not just 6th.
Just fitting a can and filter shouldn't affect the mixtures enough to stop it revving out, it'll run leaner, sure, but nowhere near enough to give this effect.

You were worried about whether the air filter is causing this effect (not revving past 7000) and the only way a filter is likely to do this is if you have over-oiled it.

The easy and quick way to check is to try the bike fr a quick ride without a filter fitted; if it now revs fine then the filter is your problem.
Clearly the engine could then draw in dust and grit, so only do this for a very short run just to see if the engine now revs out ok.
Equally clearly, the mixtures will be even leaner, and therefore an extended run could lead to detonation, holes in pistons etc. SO I'm not recommending that you remove the filter permanently.

So try no filter just to see if you have a problem with your filter.

Assuming that this isn't the case, I agree that the next thing to check is to see if one cylinder is timed 180 degrees out.
It's easy to do, and is surprisingly common when dealer workshops (who should know better) rock it up.

In order to check this, see the excellent post in the workshop section which takes you through setting up the valve timing.
The key is to turn the engine over the correct number of degrees from setting the first cylinder, as the timing marks appear once, and you have to ignore them and then continue turning it over until they come round a second time.
It's easy to set it at the point when they first appear, and this leads to the symptoms you describe, getting breathless after 5000 and refusing to rev out.

CAVEAT:
Please note that the timing won't go 180 degrees out by itself, and so if the bike's ALWAYS done this since it was last adjusted for valve clearances, repaired after a CCT failure or the valve and cam timing was disturbed for any other reason then this is the likely culprit.
But if the bikes been fine, and then suddenly started to refuse to rev out properly then it's not going to be the valve/cam timing settings.


Other options could be battery/charging circuit, leaks in the inlets, coils, plugs or plug cap probs, split vacuum diaphragms in one or both carbs, split petrol tap diaphragm, blockages in the fuel lines, jets or carbs, etc, etc.

In my opinion it's unlikely that fitting cans and a filter will affect the mixture enough to stop it revving out, run roughly, sure, maybe (and more likely if it's running lean) pinking/pre detonation under load in higher gears, but certainly in lower gears it should be able to reach the redline no problem.

Lastly, just raising needles will only affect part of the carb's functions, it's likely that if the carbs need adjustment from standard you should also consider main jet, pilot jet sizes and emulsion tube, and it's easiest to just get a Dynojet or Factory Pro jet kit and use their recommendations.
However the best solution is to get it on a dyno with a good operator who will be able to set it to fuel perfectly, tailored to your engine, can, filter etc. Then if you change any of these, modify or add any new bits it should be rechecked.

Hope this clarification helps. :thumbup:
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
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sirch345
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Re: pilot screw setting

Post by sirch345 »

Nice post Tony, I couldn't have put it better myself :thumbup:

Chris.

PS.QUOTE
It's easy to do, and is surprisingly common when dealer workshops (who should know better) rock it up.
IMHO I think where they come unstuck with the V twin Firestorm engine, is because it has two cam chains unlike an inline four.
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TUG
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Re: pilot screw setting

Post by TUG »

Ok then, well heres the things i've fixed and corrected to far then.
Front plug cap (only running on 1 and a half)
New plugs
Sorted the idle mixture
Balanced the carbs but will do again
Checked valves (tight walves on front cylinder from lack of maintainace i would assume)

As far as i know a bike mechanic had this bike at some point so if he did replace the CCT's maybe he wombles it up but its starting to piss me off all this now,
I feel i'm learning alot more in my field of work and shall i say quite competent? When i strip it next month i'll sort all this sh1t out.
As you can probably tell i'm quite annoyed and can only appologize but i see this stuff day in day out at work and for some reason is starting to get to me.
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benny hedges
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Re: pilot screw setting

Post by benny hedges »

TUG wrote: As you can probably tell i'm quite annoyed and can only appologize but i see this stuff day in day out at work and for some reason is starting to get to me.
first rule in faultfinding - look for signs of meddling and previous repairs. 99% of the time, there's your problem! :Argue 1:
You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when posting something which you later rely on in quote. Anything you do say may be ripped to sh*t.
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TUG
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Re: pilot screw setting

Post by TUG »

I have plenty of them benny, i'll get a jet kit and then rip the heads off and sort out my valves.
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