Familiar symptoms to anyone?

[Fozzie]

Nope shims are not cheap. I managed to find a local garage that would exchange them for a couple of quid.

Well I've put the new exhaust gaskets in and no change. If anything it seems louder. I took a look at the cams again yesterday and made sure the clearances were still ok and still the same sound. It's not there when the engine is cold, only when it's starts to warm up, say about 3-4 mins of riding. At idle it's barely audible, at it's loudest mid range and top range, well the exhausts drown it out.

Do you think it could be a slightly too tight cam chain? They adjusters are only hand tight but on inspection it looks pretty tight. I did change the coolant so wondering if some rust in a radiator could cause it to rattle when warm? Or maybe is there a reason the carbs could make that rattling noise? I know I'm grasping at straws here but it's really annoying.

[benny hedges]

have you tried some different cans on it?
900f i used to have had an annoying rattle and it was the perforated steel baffle tube inside the can that had rotted away inside and was rattling.
put a new slip-on can on and it was ok.

[sirch345]

Fozzie,

I'm assuming you lapped in the valves you replaced on the front cylinder head. Once that was done did you turn the front c/head and the replacement rear c/head upside down and fill them with petrol to check all valves were sealing properly

I'm wondering if you could still possibly have a bent valve or two and that is what's causing the ticking, although if that was the case I would have thought it would be there all the time.

Chris.

[Fozzie]

Yeah I lapped the new valves in, even relapped the old ones in then checked with petrol they were sitting right. Didn't do the ones in the replacement rear head as it all came loaded so I just checked they were sealed with petrol. I seem to have no loss of performance either. Im 90% sure its coming from the front head so I guess i'll just have to take the front head apart again and see whats going on, not that I can afford another gasket. Would it be worth trying some auto CCTs to see if it is the tension? Not that I have any, but maybe I can find someone to swap.

Unfortunately I dont have access to any other cans. As im running out of ideas im wondering whether to use an oil additive like ZX1 to see if I can ease the noise, at least then i'll know if its inside the engine where oil is present or not. I'll try and get a sound clip and pop it up for you to listen too. I would just ignore it but for one, its bloody annoying and two, im not sure if any damage is being done. The only things ive changed on the bike before this started were two valves, shims and cam chain tension. Oh and I had the timing out 180 degs initially. I'm still not sure i've tensioned ithe cam chains right. I've hand tightened and backed off a bit but even coming a way out I dont really hear any chain slap.

I'm stumped...

[Fozzie]

Ok got a sound bite I took yesterday on my phone that can be downloaded from either of the following two links and is in Quicktime format

http://rapidshare.com/files/408483042/noise.m4a

or

http://rapidshare.com/files/408483289/noise.m4a

This was taken about 10mins after I left work. I had been in work just over 5 hours. I pulled over in a layby and kept the revs around 2-2.5k so it was easier to hear. It almost sounds like a vibration of something but ive checked all the bolts...

Edit: Not sure it matters but the phone was held just above the very front of the tank, by the yokes

[benny hedges]

ewwwww dunno if that was just a sh1t recording with ignition interference but it didnt sound right.
it's not jut the fairing loose is it? clips missing or sumat?

[Fozzie]

Well barring some noise from passing traffic, I'd say that's what it sounds like. I did rebalance the carbs about an hour after that recording as they were out by quite a bit. She is a high mileage engine (50k) but has receipts to show she has been serviced regularly and I got it for a song although it sounded so much nicer before the cam chain slipped and bent some valves. Think I'm gonna have to get a pro to take a look. I'm worried about the cost though. If they charge me a fortune just to tell me it's knackered and something major is wrong I'm screwed. Debating whether to find a lower mileage engine elsewhere and break mine to recoup some cash

[sirch345]

She is a high mileage engine (50k) but has receipts to show she has been serviced regularly and I got it for a song although it sounded so much nicer before the cam chain slipped and bent some valves.

Fozzie,

Seeing as the valves have been checked with petrol, that was going to be my next question, how many miles has the bike done. You beat me to it

For some reason or another I couldn't get your video links to work, but I have heard some say that the slides in the carbs can wear on high mileage bikes and will cause the sound you're referring too, although not sure if 50,000 mls is classified as high mileage. Another possibility, but I would have thought if it was that it would have been there before you replaced the valves and c/head.

Chris.

PS. Just a shot in the dark really. I don't suppose you forgot to tighten up one of the spark plugs fully

[Fozzie]

Ill pop up another link for the audio clip as an mp3 when i get home from work tonight. I checked the plugs yesterday just to see if they were fouled or anything and they were in tight and seemed ok, maybe the front cylinder plug was a little sooty but not overly. I thought the noise was coming from the carbs at one point, but as I never touched them, they were ok before and only sprayed down the throats with a bit of carb cleaner, I kinda ruled that out. I'll try and persuade the wife that it's important I strip it down again this weekend and I'll treat it as if I never repaired it and do it all again. Is a compression check an easier way of checking the valves aren't bent without hauling the head off?

[tony.mon]

Yes, a compression check will indicate if there's a fault with the cylinder, but won't necessarily tell you it's a bent/not sealing valve.
Could be rings, piston worn, or bore wear as well.

[Fozzie]

Ok well the missus wouldnt let me waste anymore money on a compression tester so I had the heads apart again to see if I could sort this noise out. Nothing seemed out although there was one thing. When setting the timing the first time I repaired them I couldnt get the FE/FI to line up exactly when on the FT timing mark. I read on the Superhawk forum that getting them to line up close to the FT mark but between the F and FT mark was ok. Is this right? I couldnt get the FE/FI marks to line up any other way and i'm just wondering whether a stretched cam chain could be a fault for this, and the noise im getting. I found by tightening up the front tensioner seems to ease the noise but I was tightening so much that the idle was getting unstable and I didnt want to whack it in anymore (it was well beyond hand tight!) Could it be a cam chain guide? If I do change the cam chain, do I need to do front and back at the same time?

[benny hedges]

could well be overstretched camchains at 50k...
you need to set the cam timing with the engine at the ft rt marks, not between f & FT, that could be your problem as you will have accidentally retarded the spark so to speak.... it will still spark at 15 degree before tdc, but the cam timing is at it's tdc position before tdc, if you get what i mean...
could well be that the valves arent fully closed when the engine fires...
so the noise you are hearing could be the engine firing when the valves are not closed, giving artificially low compression and still burning into the downpipes and exhaust gallery in the heads.

if you do decide to replace the camchains (wise move imo) then you should really do the chain guides as well, front & back.
while the heads are off, have a look what the bores are like, any blacking / glazing?
piston slap? what's the clearance like - im sure tony will be interested to know how much free play there is side to side, back to front...

[Fozzie]

The rear timing was spot on with the RE/RI marks when set at RT but on the front head the cams always seemed to be one tooth out. Thats how I came across the information regarding the F and FT marks cus I couldnt get them to line up.

Regarding the cam chain im hoping the chain hasnt done 50k as the previous owner had kept it regularly serviced including a ACCT failure in 2006 and got a garage to swap the old head for a second hand one and replace the ACCTs with manuals (although they look like DIY manual ones). I guess to save costs they could have just kept the chain. Surely if it is stretched, the tensioner would adjust the chain accordingly if I tightened them? I think I will have to invest in some new cam chains anyway but I hate the thought of spending another £50 on gaskets etc as its money I dont have. Is there an easier way of changing them?

[benny hedges]

pretty sure you can just drop them over the bottom gear from down the tunnel - wait for someone to confirm as ive never done it on the storm

looks like front one you can get to by removing the stator, flywheel and starter gear.
you can get at the guides from there too or thats what it looks like to me....

and the rear, you need to remove the clutch casing, clutch and primary gear.
again, you can access the chain guides from under the clutch...

doesn't look like you have to split the crank cases to do the chains, but i wouldn't say it's a 5 minute job!
clutch gasket & timing cover gasket from silvers are like 7 & 13£ respectively.

[Fozzie]

pretty sure you can just drop them over the bottom gear from down the tunnel - wait for someone to confirm as ive never done it on the storm

That what I was hoping. Not sure if you can change the guides that way too though. Doesnt piston slap disappear when the engine warms? See my noise appears when its warm and after tonights experiment with the CCT i'm thinking more and more its the cam chain or guide.

Regarding the timing, is there a safe way of setting it with a slightly stretched chain?