clutch issue

[Darknomad]

Hi oh wizened road veterans
This ignorant monkey needs advice
And maybe a quote
When I attempt to pull
Away with a little juice
My clutch makes a funny squeely noise
And does not smoothly engage
Making the bike lurch or bunny hop
I'm restricted to gentle pull offs
Is my clutch fiddler and do I need to have it replaced?
If so can someone give me a price
And while there at it a price for a stopper mod also plz thanks

[benny hedges]

first off, check your oil level and type, and if the clutch needs bleeding at all.
not a problem ive had myself, mine just started to slip due to abuse, but speaking to tony mon, who has a shitload of engines and is well versed in the internals, it could possibly be the big bearing behind the clutch that causes the lurching juddering snatching etc

another possibility, if you download the workshop manual from the workshop link, look at the exploded clutch drawing and you will se an 'anti-judder ring'
this could be worn or sticking, giving the symptoms you describe.

or maybe you just need to replace the plates like me, in which case you're looking at about £50 for plates, £13 for a new clutch cover gasket and best get some new coolant & oil as well so about £100 to do the job proper.

while the casing is off, see if theres any lateral movement in the shaft as this could indicate the big bearing is on its way..
(i think you will find its just plates tho m8)

re the stopper mod???? 50p will cover it lol!

[parkergb6]

Hello Mate,
I've got exactly the same problem as you. Did you manage to solve it. I'm going to check the bleeding today as I recently replaced all the fluid. If not new plates seen a kit with springs for about £150 gasket £7 plus fluid etc. The job itself does not appear to be too bad.

[seb421]

ive had that horrible screething noise

my bike got abused quite a bit, leaving my mates R6 and ZX6R (2009) from stand still's and wheelie's and what not.

only screeches grinds now when its gunned like wombles from the lights.


i dont do it anymore as its a realy worrying noise it makes, would love to have it sorted.

i think its due a clutch to be honest too, its about 28K i think at the moment and its had its fair shair of clutch abuse, clutching up countless wheelies and race starts

[Darknomad]

i dont have the confidence to get stuck in the clutch area like that or do the stopper mod
do we have a bike shop mechanic well versed in vtr on site?
ill ride pay for the work parts if someone is available

[tony.mon]

Ah, that clutch problem.

I used to have that, and tried everything I could to fix it, replaced plates, clutch basket, clutch centre bearing and top hat bearing, stronger clutch springs, slave seals and piston, etc, etc.
Couldn't get it sorted.
Eventually the engine died, and I replaced it with another complete one.
Problem solved!

So what was it on the old engine?
Once I stripped it down, after some bloody awful grinding and crunching noises stopped me from using it any more, I found that the big bearing behind the clutch, the input shaft bearing, had only about five balls left in it and almost none of the cage. The rest had all gone into the gearbox, hence the replacement engine.

Funnily enough I stripped that engine down this afternoon, just to see if the bearing could be changed with the engine in situ. (I'd been wondering while I was on holiday, and knowing that the bearing appears to be held in place by a little retainer with two 10mm bolts it seemed possible that the bearing could be just slid out and a new one slid in, but no such luck.

Unfortunately, no, it can't, and the engine has to come out and the crankcases need to be split.

But although that sounds like a huge job it may not be too bad, because the top end stays on, the crank stays in one half of the cases once split with one of the shafts and the selector shaft/forks and the other shaft stays in the other crankcase half.
So it basically opens up, you replace the bearing and close it up again, refit the lump and ride off down the pub.

I found that I could ride round it, get the clutch home at lowish revs and then use the torque to pull you away, and using this technique I got an 11.6 second drag strip time, so not too bad, really.

I would just say that I'm not absolutely positive that the bearing's failure was at the root of the clutch graunch noise, but putting two and two together it seems pretty likely.
I suppose the only way we'll ever know is for someone who has this problem to bite the bullet and replace the bearing, then see if the problem disappears.

Or has anyone already done this?

[Darknomad]

if any one has the know how and the tools and a spare weekend day
to doodle with the clutch and do the stopper mod ill gladly ride up to where ever they are hopefully within a couple hours of london

[Darknomad]

I guess my yellow perilhas turned into a lemon
Maybe I should just invest in another bike
I wanted a commuter not a headache
So another vtr a sp1
Or a varadero

[benny hedges]

seems a bit harsh tbh bud, just take the clutch cover off and check for play in the clutch shaft, pop the front off and check the plates, judder ring etc - shows how in the shop manual, 1/2 day job at the most, not overly taxing on the brain...

[tony.mon]

It's not a big deal, just get used to getting the clutch home early and using the torque.

TBH I don't think it's any slower than slipping the clutch for fast takeoffs, once you get used to the technique.

And if I'm right and it's the big bearing it is pretty unlikely it'll fail completely- mine did but I thrash it mercilessly and was using it for business, as well as commuting and leisure, so it was getting well caned
I haven't heard of anyone else's bearing going but there's quite a few with the grabby/graunchy clutch, so it certainly isn't terminal.

But if you want to twist my arm I'll give you twenty quid for your old nail, if you really can't bear it

[sirch345]

Funnily enough I stripped that engine down this afternoon, just to see if the bearing could be changed with the engine in situ. (I'd been wondering while I was on holiday, and knowing that the bearing appears to be held in place by a little retainer with two 10mm bolts it seemed possible that the bearing could be just slid out and a new one slid in, but no such luck.

Unfortunately, no, it can't, and the engine has to come out and the crankcases need to be split.

But although that sounds like a huge job it may not be too bad, because the top end stays on, the crank stays in one half of the cases once split with one of the shafts and the selector shaft/forks and the other shaft stays in the other crankcase half.
So it basically opens up, you replace the bearing and close it up again, refit the lump and ride off down the pub.

Good man Tony for letting us know about that big bearing behind the clutch

I'm still thinking like you though, how could this faulty bearing cause these symptoms

But seeing as you tried everything else clutch related it does seem to point to it being the culprit.

Chris.

[tony.mon]

As far as I can work out, the slight wear in the bearing allows the shaft to rattle around, and the resultant eccentric movement on the basket reduces the clearance between the plates so it locks up.
Also explains the graunching noise- if you've got this problem you'll know- you can't miss it, so if you're not sure yours is ok.

Anyone used a wood countersink bit in aluminium plate?
Same effect.

But as I said before, I'm only guessing until someone actually has the problem, changes the bearing and finds it's gone.
rather hoping it won't have to be me.....

Trouble is, any engine with this problem will sell easily on E-Blag as compression will be fine, no noises or any other signs.

So you've got to fit one and hope.

I got lucky, had the engine that the bike came with drop that bearing, and the spare I bought as a replacement didn't have the problem.
Tell you what, though, I think I'll have to replace that bearing with a good quality one when I get the rebuild done, as I don't want to have to pull the engine out too many times.

[Darknomad]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HONDA-FIRESTORM-V ... 35aa03b7da
worth getting?
the couple hundred quid i was gonna spend on cans will be spent on the clutch issue [and stopper mod]
if the bike can be re assembled in the same weekend or day even
can trial and error on it
start with clutch basket etc then move onto the big end if it aint sorted
i was hoping itll be something easy like wrong oil used
could the issue be related to the first gear maybe gearbox?
it dont seem noticable in any other gear
the snatch and lurch really dont inspire confidence for me lol
i need a volunteer mechanic with know how on vtr

any takers?

[tony.mon]

Sorry, too busy to even get on with my own engine rebuild at the moment.

But you'd need one special tool- to hold the clutch basket still while you put a breaker bar and socket on the clutch centre nut. (It's staked, so might be worth getting a replacement nut ordered before you start).
I've never found that I could loosen it by just jamming the primary gears, although the Haynes suggests this.
They do have instructions as to how to make one, however.

The special tool is about £70 last time I looked.

[sirch345]

As far as I can work out, the slight wear in the bearing allows the shaft to rattle around, and the resultant eccentric movement on the basket reduces the clearance between the plates so it locks up.
Also explains the graunching noise- if you've got this problem you'll know- you can't miss it, so if you're not sure yours is ok.

That's a good point Tony, I must admit that's one thing I'd not considered,

Chris.