More clutch related woes and engine concerns

[tony.mon]

Ok, I was just thinking through the bits that could possibly add to the pushrod length. Pushrod into top hat part- I can't see how it would not fit, TBH, as long as the top hat is fitted true.

Re CCT rattle- the spring is either gone or it isn't. Even with the stopper mod in place you will still be able to test for spring pressure against a small screwdriver in the end of the CCT.
If you feel spring resistance when you turn the screwdriver clockwise it's ok.
If there's none, the spring's gone and you need to either get a standard one and re-do the stopper mod or get some manuals.

Air in the fluid will leave the clutch acting normally but the air bubble acts as an extra spring.
You'll still get enough pressure once you pull the clutch in hard enough- because the bubble compresses down far enough to stop acting as a spring.

So releasing the clutch lever, the first part of the travel is just letting the bubble expand, then the last bit allows the clutch to lock out.

I'd be thinking about re-bleeding it once more, and running most of a can of fluid through it- say six to ten reservoirs full?

Haven't read all the way back through the posts, but try tying the lever back to the bars overnight before bleeding it through.
If you've already tried tying the lever back ignore me.

Last guess- do you have braided hoses fitted?
If the old original rubber ones are still on, you might have a split in the hose allowing it to expand under pressure.

[benny hedges]

or it could be the seals / are fkt or breaking up and have obstructed the fluid return hole in the master cylinder, the tiny hole under the little metal plate inside the mc.

cant say ive seen it with a clutch but i have seen this happen with brake master cylinders... where the effect is that when you operate the brake, the fluid can't return quick enough and the caliper pistons creep back in slowly or stay pumped out, locking the brake.

with a clutch, id imagine it would push the clutch apart as normal, but then creep back in slowly giving slip (like mine)
then next time you pull the clutch lever, it doesnt have to move as far to separate the plates, cos they havent fully returned to their proper closed position.

just a thought...

[billbofagends]

Been messing about with the clutch a bit more today - I've bled it at the master cylinder banjo, emptying a couple of reservoirs, then done the same at the slave cylinder banjo and finally bleed as normal from the nipple - not seeing any air bubbles anywhere. Had a quick check of the push rod to make sure it felt OK. Just as a test to see the affect of shortening the push rod, stuck some washers between the slave cylinder and chain cover - no real difference so Tony you right about that.

When I rebuilt the m/cylinder I got it in the sink with some fairy liquid and gave everything a good scrub with a tooth brush so all the passages should be clear.

It's got the standard hose - just replaced it though with another second hand one. Can't see any bulges anywhere.

Beginning to think that it's just different to what I'm used to, just need to try a different 'storm to see. I'll take a vid of the clutch biting point tomorrow and hopefully capture the engine noise too.

With the CCT - could the spring be weak rather than broke causing it to be noisy? When I took it out to do the stopper mod there was def tension in the spring. It's giving the exact symptoms of what has been described - noisy at low revs and on the overrun. I'm gona buy a set from rider on a storm once the next batch is ready anyway. Can't think what else would cause that sort of noise.

[billbofagends]

Just measured the clutch biting point - it's rougly 1 7/8 inches - see photo:


Also got a video showing the clutch plus the engine noise which is very clear after snapping the throttle and returning to idle:
[youtube][/youtube]

So there we go - what do we reckon?

[benny hedges]

mines about 1/2" atm, just touch the lever and it slips, or more than 1/2 throttle and off it goes :/

mrs foned me today to say some stripey metal and wood bangles had arrived....

cheers tony


wondering if yours has a non-standard lever fitted?

[billbofagends]

mines about 1/2" atm, just touch the lever and it slips

Is that 1/2" from the handle bar before it starts to bite?

Ooh shiny clutch bits. If you haven't already got a clutch cover gasket, they're £6 from wemoto rather than the £18 that the stealers want! I've took the liberty of photocopying one, my thinking being that I can buy own gasket card and cut it out with craft knife for less! lol. If anyone actually wants a scan of it then let me know and I'll scan it at work and post it.

I think you could be right about having the wrong clutch lever. I was looking at it today thinking it was about the only thing I haven't taken apart/replaced. The adjuster when full wound in doesn't sit flush with the lever (see photo) like it probably should do, as a consquence, when you put the lever on the bike, you have to apply a bit of pressure on the m/c to get the bolt in. The brake lever appears to have the same adjuster but sits flush in the handle so I'm going to try swapping it over tmoz.



What did you make of the engine tappety type noise?

[tony.mon]

Engine noise sounds very much like loose cam chain slapping.
Check spring tension by putting a tiny screwdriver down the end while in situ and feeling for spring pressure.
If none, be glad you did the stopper mod!

So get them CCT's sorted quick.

Re clutch lever, there seems to be a screw on the handlebar side of the adjuster- if you took that out and reinstalled it with a bit of playing can you get the adjuster to seat equally? (i.e. with an equal gap on both sides of the adjuster wheel, which is what I think you're saying isn't the case right now?)

[billbofagends]

Had a quick check of the CCTs, still seems to be tension there. I'm thinking the springs very weak and about to break. Waiting for rider on a storm to make a batch then they will be swapped. If it isn't the CCT, what else would cause that noise? Can't see that its valve train related as the clearance was spot on.

Had a look at the clutch lever, doesn't seem to match the pattern of the brake lever (the ball at the end isn't drilled out like the brake lever) and the adjuster knurled knob doesn't get as close to the lever. Anyway, I've taken the adjuster knob out and shoved just a washer in its place - now the clutch has a far more reasonable biting point.

Guess that doesn't necessarily prove the lever is at fault but I'm going to get another off ebay - so fingers crossed!

[benny hedges]

you might as well check the valve clearances then when you do the cct's
not a big job.
from cold, ex 12 thou, .31mm inlet 6thou .15mm
cold means COLD, not warm!

recommend you get a hotcams shim kit as it works out cheaper than buying individual shims.
you want the 9.48mm diameter kit - about £70 for a million assorted shims

[billbofagends]

Already done valve clearances benny, well within tolerence.

[sirch345]

Had a look at the clutch lever, doesn't seem to match the pattern of the brake lever (the ball at the end isn't drilled out like the brake lever)

I have a feeling that one lever ball isn't drilled out (I can't remember which one right now) but the other one is as standard.

I'll try to have a look tomorrow to confirm.

Chris.

**EDIT**
I've just had a look, the brake lever ball end is drilled out, whereas the clutch lever isn't. That's on genuine standard levers.

Chris.

[billbofagends]

Thanks for looking Chris. But uh oh is all I can say. If a new lever doesn't cure it I think I will have run out of ideas, apart from maybe a different push rod into the m/c... or a diff bike! ahhh!

[sirch345]

Thanks for looking Chris. But uh oh is all I can say. If a new lever doesn't cure it I think I will have run out of ideas, apart from maybe a different push rod into the m/c... or a diff bike! ahhh!

No worries. Good luck with whichever you go with

Chris.

[tony.mon]

Just had a thought- are the correct number of clutch plates in it?

An old bodge for a slipping clutch used to be to stick in an extra plate or two; that resulted in less release travel on the lever.

Mind you that was with cable actuation, and I simply don't know how that would be with hydraulics.

But might be worth a check before you throw the bike in the skip.

Oh, another thought- the last (outermost) plate has to be set in the cutouts in the basket, not in line with the tabs on all the others.
Again, never tried building it wrongly, so can't comment on how that would work or feel.

There, that'll give you something to do on Saturday.

[tony.mon]

Just had a look at the pic in your YouTube vid- yes, you have the outer plate in the cutout, so forget that one........