College CCT help

[vtwin]

I too have a fair amount of mech design exp.
I think the design might be a good design for the grades (not the bike), but the more features you add the more pontential to go wrong, to me the simplest is often the best and TBH ROAS's design is simply that but it is a design that is unlikely to impress and thus not get you your qualification but for the purpose of it's design I doubt you can better it.

If people want the spring pressure then I'd look at a design similar to this,


This system is used on my other bike, yamy FZ750. you can open the back and check the spring or take it out altogether, yes it has another spring which could fail but if during your inspection the plunger withdrew you would know to get it fixed before you start it. If it fails in use then the ratchet keeps it safe, once again it is pretty simple.
However those are not available and ROAS ones are

That one is almost identical to the one fitted to my Yamaha Quads ( ive got 12 of them ) simple yet works perfectly. I am a big fan of Honda products but they do over engineer things. I have owned many Honda quads too and they just seem to try and fix things that don't need fixing.

[tony.mon]

If people want the spring pressure then I'd look at a design similar to this,


:

I like the fact it shows your change from a fiver,too.

[Arfur_Guiness]

Well, I'm gonna shove my twopenn'orth in, cos I'm now a qualified expert having suffered CCT failure!

Seriously, with due respect to others that have far more experience than me, the main cause of failure on my own bike would appear to have been due to corrosion.

Assuming the guy I bought the bike from was telling the truth - and why should I doubt a fellow Storm owner - he'd replaced the CCTs 3000 miles before I became the new owner.

Front one failed, luckily at low speed, no "flywheel" effect, pulled clutch & hit kill switch upon hearing the DRRRRRR from the motor.
No valve damage - RESULT!

Front CCT has a badly rusted spring - presumably from condensation - and failed where it engages with the slot in the "worm drive" inner. And the previous owner did short trips so presumably didn't get enough heat in to burn the wet off? Lubrication is at best only a splash or two from the chain passing nearby....
The rear CCT is like brand new!!!! But then the rear CCT is angled down, behind the cylinder and therefore sits in an oil bath = no corrosion.

Would it not be a good idea to strip and liberally coat the mechanism with grease before fitting?

And what is wrong with the old fashioned CCT that was on my old CB750 - a simple spring loaded plunger with a locking bolt.........

[Rider on a Storm]

Sorry I have just got up after laughing my ass off It just shows how the tinterweb can mis represent and give the wrong impression. ROAS I can can see why you came to that conclusion but you are so far off the mark its laughable . I am a 40 yr old RAF aircraft tech who has decided he needs to get some mech eng (as opposed to Aeronautical Eng) quaifications before getting out of the RAF. The reason for all this invest is this: if you have ever done a HNC/HND/degree you have to come up with a design based on a current fault. As a previous owner of the Firestorm I thought the CCT issue was perfect. Warby came up with a plan from a VFR I think that had two opposing plungers at 90 degrees. That in itself in my opinion was an answer, couple this to an indicator pin letting the owner know the spring had failed and it would be a CCT for dummies unlike the manual CCT that needs a qualified mechanics ear and set up.
P.S I am not going to bore the ti*s of you but funnily enough the spring calcs for the CCT give a minimum spring diameter of just 0.125mm That quite suprised me.
Thanks for the interest guys and help yourself to the Blueprint for the golden CCT I hope it makes someone some money. By the way ROAS I like the bling manuals you are kicking out, they have the look of real quality.

ok m8 fair play, like I said if u ask the rite questions u will always get help here, no one is trying to out the other, if as you say its a project to address cct failure why not give a soloution for current models? (gear driven) manuals are the a soluton to vtr.1000 firestorm cct problems, not a cure for all bikes, or spitfires, harriers, tornados, etc. Your comment regarding a qualified mechanic to set up manual ccts is bull, forgive my bluntness but I'v sent over 80 sets to members and with guidelines they have been fitted with no problems. APS from the states have seen the problem too, but for the world of me I cant see why they charge soo much, profit i guess, I'm just an ordinary biker who has a firestorm and a solution for these models, i'm not a raf engineer but i can measure a cct without asking for the measurements, or at least get one and measure it myself. I dont doubt your degrees, but to be fair as a so called raf tec as you say would you really ask for measurements off the www, ?? come on, a guy of your ability asking for measurements for a project to cure a problem from the past wont help the RAF of any other airforce , sorry m8 but i dont see that you are been straight with us, if you are as clever as you say your are you dont need to ask us these questions

[Rider on a Storm]

Guys not been trying to be a smart ass but, as firestorm owner we all know there may be a problem with auto ccts, the design is ok but the spring is weak yes???, solution is a better grade of wire material, problem for firestorm owners is it too old. As a fix we have been recomended manual ccts, a bit of work but you dont have to be a engineer to to do it, anyone who has fitted manual ccts please post their comments rearding fitting here, tks

[vtwin]

Fitted my ROAS manuals yesterday, follwing the instructions it was a doddle. TBH the hardest part was getting the breather pipes on and off the airbox, also fuel pouring out of the tank when I pulled the pipe off !

I adjusted as recommended, hand tight then back off 1/4 turn and the bike sounds sweet as a nut.

Hopefully the bike should be bulletproof now.

Thanks Tray

[Karl_h]

I think you've been a bit hard on the guy there Tray. As I'm in the final month of my engineering degree, I can fully understand your point that a correctly designed spring is the best solution. Unfortunately you won't get many marks for that. A lot of the time you end up doing totally pointless tasks just to build up what is judged to be enough work. Point in case being I've just finished designing a pedal powered snowmobile........

[tony.mon]

I think you've been a bit hard on the guy there Tray. As I'm in the final month of my engineering degree, I can fully understand your point that a correctly designed spring is the best solution. Unfortunately you won't get many marks for that. A lot of the time you end up doing totally pointless tasks just to build up what is judged to be enough work. Point in case being I've just finished designing a pedal powered snowmobile........

I agree with the comment above, Tray.

I like your ones, (I've fitted enough of them ) but an owner who isn't that confident about fitting manuals is also unlikely to strip them and replace the springs, no matter how simple the instructions.

I also agree that for an degree subject, a replacement spring isn't going to earn you a decent mark, so a more inventive, measured, researched, tested, and designed solution is called for.
it's not about coming up with the easiest solution, it's about proving that you can use correct techniques, methods and information in order to produce (or in this case do everything before the production stage) a workable solution.
It doesn't mean that the solution is automatically better than any other solution currently available.

And regarding your point about asking for information and measurements, all of us do that, whenever we ask for help, assistance or opinions on this forum, so don't knock that too much.

It doesn't matter how much you know, in my humble opinion, because more knowledge only leads to more questions, and being able to accept that concept is a good place to start.

Dunno about the snowmobile, though, the fun's surely mostly in the screaming engine....

[Karl_h]

Urgh don't get me started Tony! I got out voted! I fancied looking in to a TTX gp bike.

[elric]

@ Beamish, if it is just the design and solution to a problem you have to show and create, then I would say just make your own sizes up as I doubt any of your examiners will buy either a CCT or a Firestorm to check and knock your scores. Providing your dimensions and tolerances match your design and it's application, I'm pretty sure you'd be alright.
LOL if they came asking we could back you up and give some BS like you designed for a older model that strangly has exactly those dimensions you just said.

You told us all openly what you wanted to do at the start and it was not to compete with ROAS, I don't think any of us need to worry about that aspect because if you did then i'm guessing the people here would support ROAS and continue to recomend his product, let's face it I think VTR owners are more likely to find this site first when looking for help or parts. I also doubt anyone is going to make any profit by competing with ROAS. I'm sure I'd be forgetting something but you got material costs, machineing time, machine tool bits, electric costs and whatever else, I doubt ROAS is making enough money out of each for a pint and if he is well he bloody earned it Once i get some cash I'll be fiting some ROAS CCT's to mine and I'll sleep better at night knowing my girl is safe from the CCT nightmares.

[Beamish]

I thought my reply to ROAS was quite diplomatic seeing as he was basically calling me a lying tw@, but after his follow up I will just leave before resorting to internet shout off, I asked for the measurements because I no longer own the bike, keeping the design within the original design spec length sort of made sense and I have no crystal ball nor did google reveal a magic dimension. I have known members on here since I owned my Storm and value their opinion hence the questions, i dont see why you are responding in the manner you are! Tony and a couple of others get what I am trying to achieve and thats enough for me. Sounds to me like you have a hang up with the forces so I wont bother hanging around, if that was your intention well done you have succeeded.

[Styler4077]

The subject said it all.
HELP with a college course.
Bemish I also thought your reply was shall we say measured
I also agree he called you a lying Tw@ and went off on one without understanding the question or reading into the reason. College engineering degrees nearly always have you designing things over the top, but that,s what you need to do to get a pass.
ROSA you missed the point of the question and turned it personal which IMHO was wrong.
I,ve fitted you parts and as Tony said they are good bit of kit.
We all at one time or another ask for help with a reply like that no wonder he,s said goodbye.

[Jazzscot]

Ill add my tuppence worth in the hope that it will avert a flame war.

I do understand the original post and realise that Beamish was asking for help to complete a college course which sometimes bears no resemblance to real world solutions (I know this because I work in the education sector).

The whole Im better and more qualifed to comment than you stance does nothing to promote a healthy forum enviroment.

The fact the thread is posted in the workshop section suggests to me that a real world solution would naturally be discussed at some point during normal proceedings.

To cut someone down for offering a solution to a real problem is wrong imho. I believe ROAS took offence at the tone of the post as he felt he was trying to help and then got cut down, therefore he responded in the way he did.

I do not believe to gain the upper hand by putting other members down is good as it promotes negativity on the forum. I also believe that taking sides is also counter productive.

Basically stop having a go at each other and kiss and make up.




Jazz

[Kev L]

There is a career in the diplomatic corps for you when education has finished with you. Fancy trying the middle east next?

[Rider on a Storm]

beamish m8, id do honestly apoligise if I implyed that you are a, well see posts above, this was not my intension and I did not think it would snowball like this, the power of words are easy to use when you are sat behind a keyboard you get time to think a bit too much into a discussion would you agree. Its time to end this one a simple note, if I was your examiner I would with respect have to fail you, why? its simple you designed a indicator to alert failure, therefore problem not solved, we would be riding with one eye on the road and the other watching for the little red thing to go pop,