engine whirring noise

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philm
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Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2003 9:57 am
Location: Perth Western Australia

engine whirring noise

Post by philm »

:
This ones for Del if he can offer any help?
I have had my 2003 model vtr for approx 10 months bought from new and its done nearly 8000klms approx 5000mls in the old language.Apart from the ccts not even lasting on my delivery ride home[replaced a couple of days later] the bike has had a rather loud whirring noise at idle and also on the move.On my original vtr a 1997 one,it did have a mionor whirring noise but not as excessive at this current bike.Its getting to the point of me wearing earplugs riding around town.The other day I thought I would try to get to the bottom of this problem as its giving me the shits!
I rode the bike to the dealer that I purchased it from and had the head spanner man have a listen.He said it sounds like I have noisy gearbox bearings and I must be using the wrong weight oil?The dealer puts shell sx4 into their bikes and I have done a coupla oil changes since its first service but I use mobil st4 which is exactly the same grade 15w-50 as the shell oil.The mechanic said that as the vtr's run hot they need a no less that 15 weight oil in the engine/gearbox as anything under that weight ie[pure synthetic]goes to the consistency of water due to the higher operating temps of the vtr.Personally I tend to disagree.When I bought my original vtr the 1997 model I ran it in on straight mineral oil up to about 5000klms and then changed to a pure synthetic.had the bike for 5 years and never had ccts or anything else go wrong in that time and it ran like a dream.Sorry I ever sold it!
DEl what's your opinion on this problem?I tend to think it would be better to try a pure synthetic oil in the engine as its been super refined for modern day engines and also engines operating under stress rather that go for a heavier weight oil as this mechanic said.Its getting to the point where I'm considering looking for a replacement bike even trying another make as I dont think Mr Honda is doing much to bring out a much needed rework of the vtr.
Regards Philm
philm/Stormboy
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DD
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Location: Christchurch new zealand

Post by DD »

Ohh.... not good aye, It is often easy to lose interest in the bike when things are always going wrong. now I'm not sure what Oz Honda reconmends oil wise but here in NZ its Castrol GPS (15/40 I think) it is a semi Syn, So I'm unsure as to why yours from new isent running the same. Maybe a swap over to this is worth a try, however if this is the rrouble then the damage is most likeyl done..... but ya never know, Good luck sorting it Phil.
cheers Darryl
bluesman
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:53 pm

Not sure, but...

Post by bluesman »

Well, I noticed many times that in 90% of cases it is not something wrong with bike, but dealer prepared bike wrongly.
Not sure about your oil, but here is an example: my friend's Yamahe FZR1000 of 1995 been always serviced at Yamaha, and they always feed it with 10W-50, so he was sure (knowing EXUP specifics) that his FZR crazy oil consumption is actually OK. After starting to add 1 liter per each 1000 km he got worried. So, I checked everything for him - except what oil he uses. When we looked into manual it suggest 15-20 W for temperatures we rode in. So, he went back to dealer absolutely furious - know what mechanic said? "Oh, but Belgium are not hot country, you surely will be ok with 10W - yes, it is normal 1 liter oil per 1000 km!"
We told him to go and f... himself, bought 15W semi-syntetic and problem disappeared. Just like that.
I am sure before sale dealer supposed to check some things? I absolutely do not beleive such situation can be trigerred by anything else. And here is example. In Belgium almost nobody heard about CCT problem on Storm. At least- less than about this happening to CBR or CB series. Here we go.
IMHO Try to change oil to something like Castrol 15W-40, but do it with washing out old one with some not intensive washing oil additive. And before new oil in - ask dealer to check if any metal small bits are down in carter pan
4 wheels moving body, 2 wheels moving soul
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delmeekc
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Post by delmeekc »

On the oil front I use mobil 1 R4T fully synthetic in all my bike (bought about 40 gallons). I've used it in 3 vtr's, and a VTX1800, and 2 ktm's. Never had a noise problem.

Err, does the sound go away when the clutch is pulled in?

It's actually sounds like (from your description), like a stretched cam chain. I've done two so far and the noise went straight away. Both were front chains too. You can get it checked dead easy. Take off the front rocket/valve cover (or get the dealer to do it), line up the timing marks on the crank and then see if the timing marks on the cam wheels are out of line (check front and back). One of them i did had stretched 10mm (that's 20mm if the chain was laid flat) and it sounded like an anvil been hit with a small hammer, not good but fixed in time.

Del.
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philm
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Location: Perth Western Australia

vtr engine noise

Post by philm »

Hi Del
Thanks for replying,I have just been out to the garage and started the bike,let it warm up,but no, the noise doesnt go away when you engage the clutch and or snick it into gear.It appears to be throttle related because as you increase the revs from idle ,the noise gets louder!
Its not so much a knocking or a rattling noise it's more of a cyclic high pitched whine,more like a turbine like sound.As you know the sound that comes from the dry clutch of a Ducati is a rattling sound,but if you get down real close to the clutch side of the vtr the noise appears at its loudest from this area but as a increasing whine as you throttle on.
Its got me beat!I think what I will do is dump the present oil,buy some 20w-50 and try that.If the noise is still there I will then dump that oil and try a pure synthetic,like you, the Mobil brand.If after all that,the noise is still there I will take it back to the dealer and get them to check out the other possibility you suggested.
Will let you know how it goes.
Thanks for everyones input
Regards Phil
philm/Stormboy
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delmeekc
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Post by delmeekc »

Don't waste you money with the oil at the mo and get the valve gear all checked out. In the early stages it will sound like a helicopter ish sound. Get the dealer or (I would do it - if ya pay me plane ticket - both ways!) to check it out.

Del.
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erkaremotodejere
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Location: Jerez de la Frontera, España
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Post by erkaremotodejere »

Yo siempre he usado Castrol GPS (15W/50). Lo he sustituido cada 6000 km. Mi VTR tiene 52 000 km y el motor suena como un reloj.
Saludos :D
erk
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DD
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Location: Christchurch new zealand

Post by DD »

erkaremotodejere wrote:Yo siempre he usado Castrol GPS (15W/50). Lo he sustituido cada 6000 km. Mi VTR tiene 52 000 km y el motor suena como un reloj.
Saludos :D
Ya what! :?
cheers Darryl
Joonas
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Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 10:18 am

Re: engine whirring noise

Post by Joonas »

So does it sound like this
Would like here the solution to this problem :)
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MGoBlue
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Re: engine whirring noise

Post by MGoBlue »

Joonas wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:19 pm So does it sound like this
Would like here the solution to this problem :)
Perfectly normal, no solution needed. Straight cut primary gears with tight tolerance.
https://youtu.be/lvvTveLpeig
tony.mon
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Re: engine whirring noise

Post by tony.mon »

Straight cut primary gears, yes, but the clearance isn't that tight, hence the need for a scissor gear to remove the slack at tickover.
The scissor gear is only to enable Honda to meet some sound limits, so it's perfectly ok to remove it and throw it away, which has the same effect as a lightened flywheel.
There's not much metal on the scissor gear, but the little steel springs also add to the rotating mass.

You can also replace the steel bolt and washer with a drilled bolt and aluminium washer/spacer for maximum effect.
Every little helps.....
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
tony.mon
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Re: engine whirring noise

Post by tony.mon »

The gears are straight cut, but the tolerances aren't that great, hence the need for the scissor gear.
If you want to see tight tolerances, have a look at the SP cam gear train.......
Removing the scissor gear is fine, it reduces rotating mass just as fitting a lightened flywheel does.
The scissor gear isn't very heavy, but there's no real need for it.
The only reason for the scissor gear is to reduce backlash noise at tickover, necessary for some regions which have lower noise limits.
The scissor gear springs also weigh a fair bit, and can go.
Every little helps....
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
Joonas
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Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 10:18 am

Re: engine whirring noise

Post by Joonas »

MGoBlue wrote: Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:28 pm
Joonas wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:19 pm So does it sound like this
Would like here the solution to this problem :)
Perfectly normal, no solution needed. Straight cut primary gears with tight tolerance.
https://youtu.be/lvvTveLpeig
So i just leave it like that and try learn to like the noice :D Maybe try a different oil if it takes the edge off.
I have now 15W-40 and i will try 20W-50 mineral oil. but first i need to replace these sub-air cleaners, old ones get sucked to the carbs...
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MGoBlue
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Re: engine whirring noise

Post by MGoBlue »

Joonas wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:50 pm
MGoBlue wrote: Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:28 pm
Joonas wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:19 pm So does it sound like this
Would like here the solution to this problem :)
Perfectly normal, no solution needed. Straight cut primary gears with tight tolerance.
https://youtu.be/lvvTveLpeig
So i just leave it like that and try learn to like the noice :D Maybe try a different oil if it takes the edge off.
I have now 15W-40 and i will try 20W-50 mineral oil. but first i need to replace these sub-air cleaners, old ones get sucked to the carbs...
Yes! Oil won't change it. Kind of sounds like a supercharger whine.
https://youtu.be/ysCMqYQp6gM
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Cadbury64
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Re: engine whirring noise

Post by Cadbury64 »

Just park your bike next to a 1999 VFR800 with gear-driven cams, you won't hear the VTR at all.
2017 MT-10SP, 2019 Vespa Primavera 150
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