Engine Swap / Replacement advice.

seb421 · Post by **seb421** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:05 pm

Engine swapping

had some issues recently with the engine, felt different / underpowered / laggy / and when slowing down on the approach to lights it was making a chugging slapping noise

took it to that Bolton motorcycle workshop, for Russ to sort it, he said it would be fine if i removed the baffles from my exhaust, paid 350 quid for the service and shim check and on the way home it started again when the bike was warm. argh.

500 miles later (37,000) noticed a few knocks from the engine, then it got worse in the following two days particularly when setting off and in 1st and 2nd, started it up at work for the mechanic to have a look and it got worse and worse as it warmed up he told me its the big end that's wombles and labour costs would be a fortune.

so I've got a new engine (used)

just in the process of removing the old one now, got tank air box and carbs off, what's the best way to do it all?

ordered the engine removal tool off ebay but still not arrived.

I'm doing this on my own and i know Tony's a bit of an expert with the engines so any advise would be great mate.

seb421 · Post by **seb421** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:30 pm

Took exhausts off and headers last nights / this morning

what's the best way to support the bike doing the engine swap?

leaving front end on but obviously have to remove the swing arm, i was hoping to do this on my own but realised that I will need to support the back end, I have ratchet straps but cannot use them on the garage roof as its ceiling is wood lined (the slat in stuff from the 60's / 70's) so cant see the rafters

Can any one that's done an engine out / swap give me some advise and pointers

Thanks.

Wicky · Post by **Wicky** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:41 pm

http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12368

See Warby's post in this thread about using, once the rear wheel/swingarm is off, the frame as a wheelbarrow to raise or lower the bike. Use a pair of stepladdders as a way to support the rear of the bike.

seb421 · Post by **seb421** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:58 pm

Wicky wrote:http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12368

See Warby's post in this thread about using, once the rear wheel/swingarm is off, the frame as a wheelbarrow to raise or lower the bike. Use a pair of stepladdders as a way to support the rear of the bike.

nice one for the link thought I would have had to remove the subframe full stop, will be much better with that as a long arm resting on a ladder, cheers

I've sprayed up all the engine bolts over the last few days so hoping they come out with out to much fuss, tool / socket arrived in the post, not impressed with the guys machining of it, well not for 12 quid any ways.

AMCQ46 · Post by **AMCQ46** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:54 pm

bloody hell, Sebs back!!!!!!!!

good to see you are still out there, with or with out the new shoes

engine out will involve removing all bodywork, then all the intake airbox & carbs, remove the radiators and coolant, remove exhausts and down pipes, now sit the sump on a nice block of wood / bricks.........then remove slacken all engine mounts and remove all electrical conections.......now remove the swingarm bolt [with the bike now resting on the sump]..........remove all engine bolts...........now lift the bike up by the rear subframe like a wheel barrow and leave the engine behind.[ you may need a 2nd pair of hands here to steer the front end]

swap the oil cooler over from old to new engine, put new engine on wooden tower and then wheelbarrow the frame to the new engine..........does that make sence?

seb421 · Post by **seb421** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:22 pm

AMCQ46 wrote:bloody hell, Sebs back!!!!!!!!

good to see you are still out there, with or with out the new shoes

engine out will involve removing all bodywork, then all the intake airbox & carbs, remove the radiators and coolant, remove exhausts and down pipes, now sit the sump on a nice block of wood / bricks.........then remove slacken all engine mounts and remove all electrical conections.......now remove the swingarm bolt [with the bike now resting on the sump]..........remove all engine bolts...........now lift the bike up by the rear subframe like a wheel barrow and leave the engine behind.[ you may need a 2nd pair of hands here to steer the front end]

swap the oil cooler over from old to new engine, put new engine on wooden tower and then wheelbarrow the frame to the new engine..........does that make sence?

Those shoe's are still around some where, a bit worse for wear now mind.

Thanks for the walk through mate, you make it sound so bloody casual, will give it a good go, going to ask one of the lads to pop round tomorrow,

Thought i was banned to be honest, only when it auto logged me on other day when i was looking for info that I noticed I wasn't, dont know what happened there.

MacV2 · Post by **MacV2** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:56 pm

Seb who?

Kev L · Post by **Kev L** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:59 pm

Seb, how did the 954 front end swap pan out in the end? There are a couple of us going down the same or similar lines so would be good to hear of any pitfalls and the results.

seb421 · Post by **seb421** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:46 pm

Kev L wrote:Seb, how did the 954 front end swap pan out in the end? There are a couple of us going down the same or similar lines so would be good to hear of any pitfalls and the results.

wombles brilliant mate, so so solid on the front sounds strange but I have confidence pushing the storm now than the 954 of my dads, oh and the brakes, wow!

I used a full 954 front end bars the lot, no cutting of the fairings or anything, passed mot no problems, the problem is now the rear feels very week compaired go the front lol

Kev L · Post by **Kev L** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:01 pm

Cheers mate. I have a Penske on the back of mine and plan to stick K-tech springs in the 954 USD's before fitting them, as they will be resisting a fair bit of, hum, ballast (19st fat old bloke!). I have had a pair of 954 bars PC'd and will try them first but may end up with some Woodcraft riser bars. Any pics of the finished bike? I had only just started on here when you took your sabaticle.

gilson · Post by **gilson** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:29 pm

seb421 wrote:
Wicky wrote:http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12368

See Warby's post in this thread about using, once the rear wheel/swingarm is off, the frame as a wheelbarrow to raise or lower the bike. Use a pair of stepladdders as a way to support the rear of the bike.

nice one for the link thought I would have had to remove the subframe full stop, will be much better with that as a long arm resting on a ladder, cheers

I've sprayed up all the engine bolts over the last few days so hoping they come out with out to much fuss, tool / socket arrived in the post, not impressed with the guys machining of it, well not for 12 quid any ways.

I really hope the front engine bolt is not seized. It's common to find the steel bolt has corroded to the ali head. Good luck as its a real PITA to get them out.

seb421 · Post by **seb421** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:04 am

Kev L wrote:Cheers mate. I have a Penske on the back of mine and plan to stick K-tech springs in the 954 USD's before fitting them, as they will be resisting a fair bit of, hum, ballast (19st fat old bloke!). I have had a pair of 954 bars PC'd and will try them first but may end up with some Woodcraft riser bars. Any pics of the finished bike? I had only just started on here when you took your sabaticle.

bikes a bit of a mess with multi coloured fairings due to the smash after my brother stole it last year.

The whole front end is so much lighter than a stock storms, the fireblade wheel is so light and the forks and clamps my god the difference!! its easy to see why the 954 was 168kg and the storm was close to 200kg

here it is with blue flames and with scorpions too

a clean bike given its used for the daily commute all year

sh1t my pants when I saw these people with cam's thought they was police so went back and spoke to them to see if I should be expecting a nip, thankfully it was just a budding photographer

With 3M reflective white tape stuck on the bike, its on the swing arm too but dont have a picture, anything that helps them see us you know... will take it off come summer.

Marco tribute god rest his sole, a massive fan it rocked me hard watching him live die that morning.
(i have a link to the tribute video that was taken down with the song its times like these by the foo fighters if any one wants to watch it again, and again.)

Front end sits lower and has a better stance with the 954 front (imo)

Lower fairing from the top picture is currently off the bike, a mate from work offered to fix it and well that's not happened so will try it my self, underneath is damaged cracked where the bolt holes are, so going to fibreglass it at some point, think storms look a bit sh1t with out a full look fairing

AMCQ46 · Post by **AMCQ46** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:59 am

bike looks clean...........also good to see a bit of order on the tool storage

tony.mon · Post by **tony.mon** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:28 pm

That looks like good advice re the engine swap.

The main (long) engine bolt is the main problem, hope yours is ok.
In my experience, no amount of wd40, penetrating oil, heat, etc will shift them if completely locked in.
Don't spend hours with a hammer, it'll get you nowhere, just take a small hacksaw and cut through at the join between engine and frame.
You take of a saw blade's worth of material, but that's easily replaced with a 1mm washer, after they've been cleaned and smoothed.

ALTERNATIVELY:
(and I haven't tried this, but I have an idea that it'll work.....)
You could leave the engine in the frame, take off the rear end and forks, and turn the bike upside down once the bolts in the top of the crankcase are removed.
Then you can undo the bolts that normally live underneath the crankcase, and it should come straight off, leaving the upper crankcase half still attached to the frame, with the gear shafts and crank still in position.

I keep saying I'm going to try this, but haven't had a chance lately.

It might be a bit of a fiddle getting sockets onto bolt heads, but as far as I can see if it's that method or cutting bits of engine and frame- I rather give it a go.

especially as even when you've cut the engine out, you still have to shift the sawn-off bolt from the engine castings- not easy.

(by the way, if you do need to get the sawn-off bits out, it's easier if you use a small angle grinder to chop out the middle section, then punch the smaller pieces inwards, chopping a bit more off as it goes through.)

TIP:
Don't try to pull the crank and rods/pistons as an assembly out from the opened crankcase- it won't work.
you have to undo the big end bolts and push the pistons out through the open top of the cylinder, where the heads go.
Oh, and there's one sneaky bolt holding the cases together, if they won't pop apart with a light tap form a rubber mallet, it's because there is still a bolt (or two) inside somewhere.

If you need crank/rods/pistons I have several, and all engine parts.
But check that the front cylinder bore is within wear limits, particularly ovality, before you throw good money at the rebuild.
You might be better off getting a low-mileage secondhand one, and selling the useable bits from yours, heads, alternator, clutch cover, etc.

These are an easy rebuild, if it's big ends you will want to check the oil pump very carefully, as oil pump low pressure is one of the possible causes, and if that's the case it will just wreck your newly-rebuilt engine.....

Any probs give me a shout.

I'll pm my mobile, in case you need a bit of advice.

Have fun

gilson · Post by **gilson** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:45 pm

That's another vote for tonymon for the most helpful member on the forum.

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