CCTs "again" but just interested

[Jester666]

So the weak point of the 'Storm engine are the CCTs.

But being a bit fik I want to know...

1: Why are they the weak point?
2: What physically happens when they "go"?
3: Why haven't I changed mine on a 43k mile bike?

Cheery muchly!

[Kev L]

Answering question 3 first " because you have been riding your luck since owning the bike". 1, the cct's don't have their own oil supply, meaning the springs will suffer from extreme temperature variation with no lubrication leading to corrosion and fracture. 2, without the spring the cam chain is left to jump over teeth leading to the timing altering. This means the valves will open into the path of the oncoming piston, leading to piston/valve interface. From descriptions by owners who have experienced it the damage and therefore costs will vary greatly.
I am by no means an expert on this, never having had it happen to me (thankfully) but I was extremely careful when I bought my bike and changed to manuals within a month, for peace of mind.
Just search on the forum and read through some of the sorry tales on there.
All the best.

[Furrybiker]

While obviously the end result is the same I wonder whether the CCT's go or if the chain gets to a stage where the autos cant cope it thrashes around a bit and BANG! the CCT gives up and snaps. If so does the manual version just provide more leeway for a stretched chain/worn cam drive components? Basically which is cause and which is effect.

Also purely out of interest as I have the CCTs from Mr. Krieger sitting ready to fit.

[tony.mon]

While obviously the end result is the same I wonder whether the CCT's go or if the chain gets to a stage where the autos cant cope it thrashes around a bit and BANG! the CCT gives up and snaps. If so does the manual version just provide more leeway for a stretched chain/worn cam drive components? Basically which is cause and which is effect.

Also purely out of interest as I have the CCTs from Mr. Krieger sitting ready to fit.

Nope, chain stretch isn't an issue, and there's no point in replacing a chain anyway, whether it has been in the engine when a CCT failed or not.
A new one will wear straight back to the same point within a few thousand miles.

It's the internal spring failing that allows the CCT plunger to retract, but unlike a lot of other engines the chain on Storms can become slack enough to ride over the cam sprocket teeth.
With most bikes it can never get this slack, even with a failed tensioner, so you wait for the rattle and then replace.

But Storms will do so, and so if it fails the cam timing goes out immediately and piston says hello to valves, at the very least.

So the cause is the failed spring, but the engine design allows for a much bigger effect than on other engines.

[lumpyv]

43k ! wow that is riding your luck. to the best of my knowledge my 12.5k easylife regular oilchange storm is on its 3rd front! and in the spring its going to manuals.

[seb421]

43k ! wow that is riding your luck. to the best of my knowledge my 12.5k easylife regular oilchange storm is on its 3rd front! and in the spring its going to manuals.

I have some personal theories on CCT issues with the storm,

often it looks to be bikes that are not in full time use and have been layed up for a while at some point that have had mishaps with CCT's,

is it not possible that condensation has built up in the engine from being in storage (possible in a cold garage) and the oil draining away from the front CCT as its position would allow all oil to run off it, moisture in a could environment could build up and affect particularly the front CCT as it elevated and likely to have less oil on it that the rear as stated, there for oxidising / corroding and weakening the spring allowing it to let go

Its quite possible that I'm talking complete utter dog poo, just something i think as it often looks to be bikes that are not or have not always been in frequent use

[AMCQ46]

I think Tony has covered this well, many of the norms for other bikes dont apply to the Storm:

1) on a IL4 you can change the CCT without setting correct TDC, but on a Storm it will jump teeth and lose timing
2) on most bikes the failure of the CCT will only end up in rattle due to chain freeplay, but on the storm the chain run is so long and the valve forces so strong, there is sufficinet slack for the chain to jump the cam teeth loosing timing.
3) The angle of the Front CCT is a factor as the spring will run dry and fretting corrosion combined with fatigue result in an earlier failure probability [but the rear has also been known to faul, so it is not only the fault of oil feed].

So when other experts say dont worry, there will be a warning, or Honda wouldnt release a product with this problem etc..........they are wrong on both counts on the storm, but even on other bikes the CCTs are known to fail.

So the CCT is a service item even on other bikes, but if you factor in the weak design of the front cyl position and the lack of failsafe on the Storm, you have to heed the warnings on this Forum and either do the stopper mod or fit manual CCT's. Please dont trust to luck, or listen to the other experts who think the Firestorm is like other bikes.

if you are worried about the cost or the setting process of Maunual CCT's you can get one of us to mentor you through the change or come to a workshop day............or perhaps you should read through the instructions on the stopper mod. For me this is the best of both worlds and is the solution I use on my engine

[Jester666]

Its all in hand!

Got these

[Jester666]

...And thanks for all the info!

[Kev L]

Just make sure you print off the instructions from the workshop sticky, read them over fully a few times before approaching the bike, read them another few times with the bike in front of you and read them again as you do the job. And read them again to make sure you haven't missed anything before you push the button.
Best of luck when you come to do the job,

[AMCQ46]

And you have to remember to loctite the main thread when you have set them, it is not enough to loctite the locnut. there have been a few on here who have had the adjuster work loose with vibration

[tony.mon]

43k ! wow that is riding your luck. to the best of my knowledge my 12.5k easylife regular oilchange storm is on its 3rd front! and in the spring its going to manuals.

I have some personal theories on CCT issues with the storm,

often it looks to be bikes that are not in full time use and have been layed up for a while at some point that have had mishaps with CCT's,

is it not possible that condensation has built up in the engine from being in storage (possible in a cold garage) and the oil draining away from the front CCT as its position would allow all oil to run off it, moisture in a could environment could build up and affect particularly the front CCT as it elevated and likely to have less oil on it that the rear as stated, there for oxidising / corroding and weakening the spring allowing it to let go

Its quite possible that I'm talking complete utter dog poo, just something i think as it often looks to be bikes that are not or have not always been in frequent use

Sorry, Seb, on my own bike I have had a front fail after 18 months of fitting new, on a bike that was in daily use, and not just five-minute commutes, either.
I've also had a rear one let go, and there the spring's constantly in an oil bath....
I agree that condensation is going to be a factor, which is (I think) why front ones go much more frequently than rears, but they can all let go, with no discernible pattern, at any age.