Info re full exhaust systems

[tony.mon]

Hi, guys, and ladyguys.

As some of you might have worked out I'm currently considering whether I want to get into production of hand-made exhausts systems, and thought I'd start with the bike I'm most familiar with.
So a little help would be appreciated; can anyone find any information on complete systems or headers that are currently available, especially performance/dyno figures and prices?
I've spent a couple of days trawling t'internet, but can't find much.

This could be because there's not much there, but with a bit of help I'm sure I could find a few more mnfrs.

If it looks as though the only options are Moriwaki and Yoshimura, then it should be possible to make and sell some big-bore bolt-on systems, with or without cans and/or link pipes.
Shouldn't be difficult to produce a small range, high, mid (sp1 style) and low (standard style) can positions, but of course the catch22 question is how much?

All I can say at the moment is definitely not under £550, but I'd actually need to make one or two in order to get a real-world costing for labour time.

So the other question is, how much would you pay?

Of course, if I sold lots then the price could come down, but with a bike such as the VTR1000F there's never going to be a huge market, and I'd have thought that once people who would buy one have got theirs, orders would pretty much dry up.
So I'd need to be able to produce a reasonable range, make specials, one-offs, racing systems, and repairs.

All assistance welcomed, comments, cautionary tales, contributions etc.

[Vtrkidda]

A mate of mine got a cheap deal from pipewerx up our way for a R6 race headers and gp stumpy can made and fitted £280 not the best qaulity though but for £280 fitted not a bad price ,the can has no baffles at all and is a bit tinny sounding ,carbon look not carbon ,plus slash cut style and has a x lazer cut in the end bit ,X is there logo,stamp ect.... Hope this helps a bit

[Stephan]

Akrapovic is still to buy, http://www.ebay.de/itm/Akrapovic-Komple ... 3efa900b51. Looks similar to my Arrow system I was happy to buy. Don´t have dyno yet, all I can say Arrow is very loud and gives more power troughout the range. I have picture of Yoshimura and this looks different. Thats all I know.

My Arrow system



Yoshimura

[Murv]

I think that, personally, about £500.00 would be my limit which I doubt is enough to buy a full performance system from current manufacturers.
Reality is, for a sub £2K, 15 Year old bike it just wouldn't make sense for me to spend too much on it .
In saying that, Storms seem to have a bit of a cult following and people do seem to spend more than is ever worth it on their bikes. Maybe that could be an outlet? satisfying the niche stuff, 'storms, V-maxes and the like?

I imagine most storm owners are like myself, have aftermarket cans and are maybe more interested in a high level conversion kit for the looks rather than outright BHP gains?

[stormsmasher]

My mate at JACexhausts tends to charge £400 for a set of headers, I actually picked up a set of Moriwaki ones to use as a starting point.
After asking around there were little or no takers so we gave it up as a bad job and I simply let Chris have them for his bike in exchange for the JAC website build.

It was a shame really but trying to find VTR owners willing to part with decent amounts of cash is very rare indeed.

I remember trying to sell my complete back end with a carbon Mario seat unit, tail light, subframe and twin under seat exhausts, I though I would get my hand ripped off in the rush but little or no interest in that either.

Daz

[leevtr]

What about......

Coming up with a silencer design that looks nothing like anything else on the market, then just adapting to fit different bikes, but keeping the core structure the same ( ish ).

I'm thinking Cambell Sidewinder, but call it a Tony Tornado instead !!

[agentpineapple]

its already been said, and i agree, there might only be a handful of people willing to pay £550 for a full system, its crazy to think if you wanted a pair of brand new cans from a good quality company, they will set you back 400 to 500, but most of us are happy to have 2nd hand exhausts. there might be a market for people wanting a single exit exhaust tho, and as said before, high level link pipes, i myself would order high level titanium link pipes from you tony. its a tough call my system cost me £290 secondhand of course, full big bore titanium, i'd say it was 7 out of 10 for condition. but thats why it was so cheap. if i just had a really nice set of cans, i would be prepared to pay £400 for headers and link pipes, a bit more for high level. theres probably more money to be made with more popular bikes like fireblades and so on....
as i said tony, if you want my exhaust this winter for a template you are more than welcome to borrow it buddy.....
good luck with your future business mate....

[VTRDark]

Just found this Big Spanish Marty Exhausts (BSM).
http://www.bsm-exhausts.com/ I have not found header pipes but there is pdf datasheets with the various cans that includes, dyno chart, dimensions etc. Could be of use to you.

(:-})

[seb421]

Yoshimura

those yoshi's look to be the same headers as used with this R&D system i bought recently

hope to fit mine tomorrow

[Stephan]

seb421: looks nice :-) Yoshi uses stock rear header? I don´t see it on both pics.

[seb421]

The only problem I think would be that for a beautifully hand crafted full system by the master of the storms is the cost ratio of bike to exhaust

Most people wont put a £750 + system on a bike with a value from £1200-£2000 depending on age and mileage etc

But owners of new bikes don't think twice about putting a £1500 + system on a newly bought bike

As much as I love my storm I would be hard pushed to justify a system worth over half its value, I mean i would probably buy one, but justifying it loved ones might be a hard act to follow followed by nights on the sofa etc

[Kev L]

That's never stopped you in the past Seb.

[edds11]

too anyone that can answer
why do the two headers allways have a pipe that links them together, I understand the need to maintain the same length of headers, this is why the trumpets are a different length-to make up for the rear header being shorter then the front one, I believe it has something to do with assisting scavenging but I cant see why they cannot be ran as 2 seperate singles, if get what I mean

[tony.mon]

too anyone that can answer
why do the two headers allways have a pipe that links them together, I understand the need to maintain the same length of headers, this is why the trumpets are a different length-to make up for the rear header being shorter then the front one, I believe it has something to do with assisting scavenging but I cant see why they cannot be ran as 2 seperate singles, if get what I mean

They can be run as two separate pipes, but the scavenging effect makes a bit more power and the system is more efficient that way.
It'll also have a small effect on the fuel consumption.

Pipe length is very important, which is why the rear one has to loop around under the engine to make it longer.

You can cheat by making the pipe fatter instead, it isn't a complete answer but can help if you simply don't have room to make the pipe longer.

This is a bit of a black art, linking the pipes at a crossover, or by using little connecting pipes.

If you look at the pictures above you can see different solutions to the same problem.
It would be really good to try all of the solutions available on the same bike back to back to see what works best, but that's not really likely to happen, it'd cost a fortune to buy all if the systems and the dyno time would also be a factor.

Best you can normally do is to compare each one back-to-back with a standard system, and just evaluate the power gain or loss you get.
Bear in mind that sometimes horsepower is what you're after, and sometimes more torque is what's wanted; you can build a system to boost one or the other, if you want both you'll have to compromise a bit, gains might not be as good as just focussing on one aspect.
This, of course, is what race teams do. If they have enough top end but need more grunt out of corners they'll try to develop a system that produces gains in torque, but doesn't affect peak hp at the top of the rev range. (If by any chance it also develops more top end- bonus!)

[edds11]

cheers tony....looking at a 2-1 system home made, been looking at different pipe suppliers and I think I could nearly get what I need without needing to fab any bends, want to step the ID up from the headers,not sure how much yet, try to shorten the front header and lengthen the rear. Take on board about the increase in diameter, was doing a bit of working out on that once I decide what the front ID will be, and then a big fat collector with an increased outlet, maybe 8-12mm larger depends on the numbers, was going to do it all in plain steel at first ( cut and weld ) and then when happy get it in ordered in stainless and get some one decent to weld it all together. Anyone know the nearest decent rolling road to Scunthorpe. this WILL be a winter project, enjoying riding it to much at the Mo, just put on some power ones on.......flick me, who says the front ends are sh1t on these bikes, what a revelation . cheers guy's, have enjoyed reading everyones posts, you all should be proud of your knowledge,skills and generosity in sharing all of this with all and sundry