Kawasaki's Versys is a grass!!

[Rob]

My new bike, Moto Guzzi Griso, shows your maximum speed on the digital display.

I'm no hooligan but can hit pretty high speeds whilst overtaking. Better to do it quickly and be back in the right lane, right?

Easy to reset though. Not a feature I like and not sure why it's there apart from bragging rights in the pub.

I'm sure dataloggers will become standard - I'm just as sure ways to circumvent them will be available.

Do you keep your mobile phone on in your pocket whilst on your bike? I've not heard of it done yet, but I bet the police, if they wanted, could track you and use the information to work out your speed. Same with CCTV that is everywhere. If you're recorded in one village, then in another 100 miles away an hour later, it doesn't take a genius to work out your average speed.

Enjoy your bike now, because I can guarantee in the future at some point your every move will be tracked

[StormingHonda]

Enjoy your bike now, because I can guarantee in the future at some point your every move will be tracked

I will and if they start fitting stuff like this to newer bikes It will be the ones i'll be owning for many years to come

[StormingHonda]

I wrote a letter to Kawsaki

Dear,
Kawasaki.
It has come to my attention , that Kawasaki as standard are fitting recording equipment to the Versys 1000, that records your throttle information, top speed etc, that could possibly be used by law enforcement to download and prosecute the owner.

Could you please let me know if this is true and if so why Kawasaki would fit such recording equipment to its motorcycles, as this is clearly not what people want, and is making a noise in the biking community.

With thanks

Let you know what the reply is.

[VTRDark]

This just angers me another invasion on our civil liberties. If I ever discover anything of the sort on my bike, it will be coming straight off. Screw the consequences, they can lock me up for all I care because if they install one of those on my bike, then my life has been taken away anyway. wombles um

@Rob that is the exact reason I do not use a smart phone. I can still be tracked triangulation via signal towers, but without GPS it can't be pinpointed.

(:-})

[tony.mon]

A letter to MCN should adversely affect sales.

That will, I'm sure, persuade Kawasaki not to commit sales suicide.

[StormingHonda]

I got a reply back, will reply back to me in three days about it

Be interesting to see what they say and we could forward it onto MCN

[StormingHonda]

heres the reply

Dear Mr Church,

Thank you for your e-mail dated 28 May 2012.

We can confirm that the Kawasaki Versys 1000 has the ability to record certain data within the ECU.

The Versys 1000 is equipped at the factory with an event data recorder (EDR). The main purpose of this device is to record data that assists with understanding of how the motorcycle systems performed during a short period of time. The EDR in this machine is designed to record such data as: vehicle speed, engine crankshaft rotational speed, throttle opening.

Event Data Recorder technology is already widely used in the automotive industry and Kawasaki have decided to adopt it to give a clear, unbiased view of a machines status immediately prior to an accident. As in the automotive industry, the data may be used in specific situations for analysis of an accident related circumstance.

We trust the above information has answered the questions which you have raised.



Yours sincerely,


Simon Chitty
Technical & Customer Service Group
Tel- 01628 856750
Kawasaki Motors UK branch of Kawasaki Motors Europe N.V. is registered in the Netherlands, Jacobus Spijkerdreef 1-3 , 2132 PZ Hoofddorp. Registration number: 34140607 Chamber of Commerce Amsterdam. VAT Number: NL8090.66.099.B01. The content of this e-mail is intended for the named addressee only. It contains information which may be confidential or privileged. Unless you are the named addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee) you may not copy or use it, or disclose its contents and subject to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify the sender immediately by returning this email.

Here is my reply

Dear,

Kawasaki, Mr simon chitty.

Thank you for your speedy reply, could you please answer the following questions regarding the EDR.
1. Of what benefit do you think this kind of equipment has to the owner of the Versys, in the event of an accident.
2. What benefit does Kawasaki gain from the EDR
3. Would the police have access to this information, to prosecute the owner of the bike, for lets say offences such as speeding.
4. In the event of an accident would an insurance company have access to this information for the purposes of invalidating and insurance claim.
5. Is the EDR only fitted to the Kawasaki Versys.
If no, does Kawasaki plan to use this technology in any of its other motorcycles in its range
If yes, what motorcycles in its range has this fitted.
6. Does Kawasaki agree that customers should be made aware of the EDR Technology
I am very concerned over this technology, and would not buy a motorcycle fitted with EDR or any other technology that works in the same way, the Versys 1000 is black listed in my list of motorcycles that I would buy, it saddens me to think that manifacurers would take it upon themselves to place such Freedom restricting technology in its motorcycles.
After all motorcycles are supposed to be about the open road and freedom.
With regards,
Mr Jason Church.

I'm going to write to all the major motorcycle makers and ask them, if they use the technology.

Heres the letter I am contacting the other manifacturers with.

Dear,
I am E mailing you with regards to Kawasaki's EDR ( Event data recording ) technology, that is fitted to its Versys 1000.
This event data recording technology basicly records information such as speed, crank rotational speed and throttle opening.
Kawasaki also claim that it is widely used by other manifacturers.
Could you please confirm if you have this kind of technology, fitted to any of your motorcycle range, or plan to put this kind of technology onto any of your range in the future.
With regards and thanks.
Mr Jason Church.

I have contacted the following motorcycle manifacturers who I deem to be main makers.

Harley Davidson
North City Triumph ( Triumph doesnt have a direct email ).
Honda
Yamaha
Suzuki
Ducati
Aprillia

Would someone contact BMW and KTM, lol, im fed up sending emails now.

[VTRDark]

Well that's it confirmed then. How long before it's a legal requirement for every bike.

Here's a thought. Having no insurance is less so in this day and age because of ANPR. So we all have insurance on paper (paid up), tear out,bypass or whatever workaround there is to disable the EDR. So if one is caught the insurance is void, so they can nick you and fine you for no insurance. ££££££

(:-})

[Wicky]

Interesting - I wonder if the rider can access the EDR data and importantly wipe it if necessary without special equipment*. Otherwise could be useful in proving one was within the speed limit, though that doesn't stop some of the the police having a view that bikes in accidents (even when not our fault)are going too fast even when within the speed limit.

Wki = "The only system, capable of downloading commercially available crash data in North America, is Bosch Diagnostic's Crash Data Retrieval System."

Video Event Data Recorder

A Video Event Data Recorder (VEDR) is a device that records video in a vehicle to create a record of accidents and for evaluating driver and vehicle performance.

We have quite a few riders who use video cameras on their bikes but as they have 'control' of the content then they can choose to keep and use any incident it captures, or delete it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_data_recorder

Use as evidence in courts

There have been a number of trial cases in the US and Canada involving EDRs. Drivers have been convicted and exonerated as a result of EDR evidence.

Other examples include:

In New South Wales, Australia, a teen-aged woman (a probationary driver) was convicted of dangerous driving "causing death/occasioning grievous bodily harm" in 2005. Evidence from the Peugeot's EDR showed that the car was being driven in excess of the posted speed limit. An injunction against the use of EDR evidence, obtained by the owner of the car (the parents of the defendant), was overturned in the NSW Supreme Court.

In Quebec, Canada, the driver of a car who sped through a red light, crashing into another car at the intersection and killing the other driver, was convicted of "dangerous driving" in 2001 after EDR information revealed that it was he, not the deceased driver of the other car (as the defendant asserted), who was speeding. There were no other witnesses to the crash.

The first such use of EDR evidence in the United Kingdom was at Birmingham Crown Court during the trial of a 21 year old man who crashed the Range Rover Sport he was driving into a Jeep in 2006. The accident left a baby girl paralyzed and the driver, who was aged 19 at the time of the incident, was sentenced to 21 months in prison. The EDR evidence allowed investigators to determine the driver was speeding at 72 mph in a 30 mph zone.

Can you also ask Kwakasaki what it records and for how long i.e. "...if a manufacturer configured an EDR to record engine RPMs or ABS activity, then the EDR would have to record 5 seconds of those pre-crash data in half-second increments."

[StormingHonda]

Well that's it confirmed then. How long before it's a legal requirement for every bike.

Here's a thought. Having no insurance is less so in this day and age because of ANPR. So we all have insurance on paper (paid up), tear out,bypass or whatever workaround there is to disable the EDR. So if one is caught the insurance is void, so they can nick you and fine you for no insurance. ££££££

(:-})

For one you would invalidate the warrenty.

Two watch the legal side of this later on.

[StormingHonda]

From Kawasaki

Dear Mr Church,

Thank you for your additional correspondence regarding the Kawasaki Versys 1000.

The EDR's main purpose is to record data for retrieval after a crash that will assist in the understanding of how a particular vehicle's systems performed. This data can help provide a better understanding of the circumstances in which crashes occurred. The information is of benefit to both the owner and KHI for this reason. In certain circumstances where required by law enforcement, other government authorities, or other third parties acting with lawful authority, we will provide stored data in the EDR to them.

Currently the EDR is only fitted to the Kawasaki Versys and as yet it is not confirmed about fitment to future models. Kawasaki agrees that customers should be made aware of the EDR Technology and the Owner's Manual contains information about Kawasaki EDR. The manual explains the purpose of EDR, it's function, the kind of data, and use of recorded data.

Again, we trust the above information has answered your questions.

Yours sincerely,


Simon Chitty
Technical & Customer Service Group
Tel- 01628 856750
Kawasaki Motors UK branch of Kawasaki Motors Europe N.V. is registered in the Netherlands, Jacobus Spijkerdreef 1-3 , 2132 PZ Hoofddorp. Registration number: 34140607 Chamber of Commerce Amsterdam. VAT Number: NL8090.66.099.B01. The content of this e-mail is intended for the named addressee only. It contains information which may be confidential or privileged. Unless you are the named addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee) you may not copy or use it, or disclose its contents and subject to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify the sender immediately by returning this email.

From Harley Davidson

Good morning Mr Church,



Thank you for your email.



With any technical information such as this, we would always advise you contact your closest Harley-Davidson dealership, who will be more than happy to advise you on our motorcycles current technology.



As for any future plans to use this technology on our Harley-Davidson motorcycles, this is not something I have been made aware of.



I have supplied a link below to help you locate your nearest dealership:



http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_GB/Co ... popup=true#





If you have already followed this route I would advise you contact one of our Master Technicians, we have 2 in the UK at present and they are based at the following dealerships:



Black Bear Harley-Davidson



Newmarket

01638 664455



Oxford Harley-Davidson



Abingdon

01865 735121



I hope this is of help to you.



Best regards





Tim Robson | Customer Services Manager | Harley-Davidson UK & Ireland



Harley-Davidson UK

Customer Support

PO Box 3627

Winnersh

Wokingham

RG40 9LE

United Kingdom



Tel: +44(0) 871 641 2508

Fax: +44(0)1189 698 339

e: harleycustomersupport@harley-davidson-uk.info

w: http://www.harley-davidson.co.uk

So far no one else have replied

[tony.mon]

There's an article about this in Bike magazine, raising the same sort of issues.

[StormingHonda]

I did get some more replies, seems Ducati have something similar although I dont think they understood the question, so that may be wrong.

Honda dont, and thought that I was disapointed by that news

[BigVeeGrin]

There's an article about this in Bike magazine, raising the same sort of issues.

Catch on Tony

Got the new edition of Bike magazine delivered yesterday and had a brief flick through. One article in particular stands out ...

[tony.mon]

There's an article about this in Bike magazine, raising the same sort of issues.

Catch on Tony

Got the new edition of Bike magazine delivered yesterday and had a brief flick through. One article in particular stands out ...

There's too much going on in my head.......I can't keep track of everything all at once.
I was trying to de-flea the cats at the time, and was distracted.

Alright, it's senility, I'm off for a nice hot chocolate and a lie-down.

Ducati are right, though, the 1198 for one has a datalogger as standard on some models, as does the 848, and it's an optional extra on several others. Double-edged sword, that one.