fork springs (again)

[budd]

[/quote]

Good to hear you are progressing in the right direction

Which option did you use to set the static sag cable tie or Roger's way as I see you were querying this in another post by you.

Chris.[/quote]

I set it using the Performance bike method, i.e. I found an article about suspension set up in a old issue of PB and followed that, apparently because the springs are the progressive type they aren't matched to my weigh in the way a correctly spec'ed linear spring would be, so according to PB the best way to set the sag is to set it to a percentage of the overall suspension travel, I checked wikipidia and found the overall travel for the storm forks is 109mm, using a cable tie I measured the sag with me on the bike, this figure is then divided by the full travel figure of 109mm the resulting value x 100 gives the percentage of travel, PB reckon something in the region of 25-30% is about right, so I’ve set it that way and it seems OK but I welcome any suggestions or opinions on the above method of setting the sag , also I haven’t done the rear yet as I was on my own doing the front and really need a second pair of hands to hold the rule and take measurements, so when I get some able assistance I’ll do the rear and re check the front as I’m sure changing the ear will effect the front, then it’s just a mater of tweaking the rebound damping.

[sirch345]

That's interesting Budd. Thanks for the reply.
If you have the standard rear shock fitted with the standard yellow spring, you'll find to get closest to the correct static sag (IIRC 8mm) it'll need to be set on the lowest (softest) setting for the preload adjuster.

Chris.

[budd]

That's interesting Budd. Thanks for the reply.
If you have the standard rear shock fitted with the standard yellow spring, you'll find to get closest to the correct static sag (IIRC 8mm) it'll need to be set on the lowest (softest) setting for the preload adjuster.

Chris.

it as a Yacugar rear spring on, (not sure the spring rating it was part of the Yacugar handling kit, front+rear springs and fork oil), however it is noticably softer than the OE spring, the preload is currently set at one less than max although it wasn't set up using any method other than what felt something like, I'll have a mess with it tomorrow to actually measure the sag.

[sirch345]

yes of course you have that Yacugar shock spring, as soon as you mentioned it I remembered

Chris.

[AMCQ46]

Good to hear you are progressing in the right direction

Which option did you use to set the static sag cable tie or Roger's way as I see you were querying this in another post by you.

Chris.[/quote]

I set it using the Performance bike method, i.e. I found an article about suspension set up in a old issue of PB and followed that, apparently because the springs are the progressive type they aren't matched to my weigh in the way a correctly spec'ed linear spring would be, so according to PB the best way to set the sag is to set it to a percentage of the overall suspension travel, I checked wikipidia and found the overall travel for the storm forks is 109mm, using a cable tie I measured the sag with me on the bike, this figure is then divided by the full travel figure of 109mm the resulting value x 100 gives the percentage of travel, PB reckon something in the region of 25-30% is about right, so I’ve set it that way and it seems OK but I welcome any suggestions or opinions on the above method of setting the sag , also I haven’t done the rear yet as I was on my own doing the front and really need a second pair of hands to hold the rule and take measurements, so when I get some able assistance I’ll do the rear and re check the front as I’m sure changing the ear will effect the front, then it’s just a mater of tweaking the rebound damping.[/quote]

Budd,
I tried this setting process last night and good news is it works out about the same as Rogers 28mm static sag, even with progressive springs.

25 - 30% of 109mm = 27 to 32mm sag [with rider]

and when I sat on the bike it only changed the front sag by 2mm so my original 28mm became 30mm.

I was surprised how little difference there was in the front sag when I sat on the bike......the rear moved a fair amount, but the front only 2mm. did you do a similar measurement static and what did you find?

[Trainraider]

I hope I don't break much of the forum etiquette, but I have some innovative questions.

(Innovative is a nicer word for "stupid".) I did read through the knowledge base section, so majority of the RTFM part has been done. (and one of the pdf manuals is downloading, but that is huge even for my enormous 125kb bandwidth - I seem to still live the same year my bike is from! 1998 )

The weather is nasty even for the dog, it is Friday, and I have bought enough installation and maintenance liquid (aka. beer). So lets go to the questions.

Please confirm if I am wrong about the front forks.
1. I can only adjust preload and rebound without opening the forks
2. Rebound are the small screws at the top of forks
3. Rebound I haven't quite figured out yet... (as said, it is raining outside) but that should be possible to do without removing the forks from the top of the forks somehow...
4. damping can be tweaked only by opening the forks.

So actually to get the suspension bit stiffer, my only option is to change the springs?
(damping helps a bit, but does not solve the issue)

Well, now to the innovative part.
I assume that the original springs are linear. Adding a spacer, or longer "joint collar" as it says in service manual, would give me only same effect as the preload?

This is kinda like in the university. Installation liquid and studying.

Practical work will follow...

- Trainraider -

[tony.mon]

Not daft questions, that's what we're here for.

Firstly, you might be confusing a "spacer".
That's effectively a 3-6mm washer that goes under the top of the REAR shock mount to raise the back of the bike, and sharpen up the steering angle.
Well worth doing, rather than letting the forks extend further up above the yoke, which achieves the same thing but reduces ground clearance.
The spacer is normally slotted to allow you to slip it in place without having to lift the bike up high enough so that the entire top shock mount clears the frame.
You don't add a spacer to the front forks, there's no point.

Now the front end.
As standard, Honda in their wisdom fitted a progressive spring (with two coil windings on the same spring) but because it's too short for the fork leg fitted a 100mm tube to fill the gap at the top end.
With most aftermarket springs (all that I've come across, but perhaps there might be somewhere you don't) you throw away the tube as the aftermarket spring is longer.

Yes, the rebound adjustment is the small slotted screw right at the top in the middle of each leg. They should always be the same amount of turns from fully in, byw.

The preload adjuster is the next bit down, with two flats on a round shaft- it takes a 14mm spanner.
That's the one you turn to try to set the forks for your own bodyweight and load, if any (camping gear, significant other).

There's no separate compression adjustment, no high speed or low speed compression damping adjustment- they're fairly basic.
Any other adjustments can only be done by changing the cartridge, or re-shimming internally, both specialist suspension company jobs, unless you really know your stuff.

But a good result can be achieved by stripping the forks and replacing the springs and oil with a set like Hyperpro, about £100 all in.
Not too difficult, but you might as well replace the fork slider bushes and seals while you're in there.

Going up the scale, replace the entire fornt fork assembly with either an early Blade one (rwu) or a later blade one (usd) can also be done, the former option is cheaper.
Other forks can be made to fit with varying amounts of work and cost.

Hope that helps

[leevtr]

Quick question...

Can the fork oil be changed without taking the forks off. Thinking of getting k-tech springs and fresh oil, and would prefer not to take it all to bits if poss. I'm guessing the oil could be sringed out ( maybe not 100%, but 95% ).

Ta

[tony.mon]

Quick question...

Can the fork oil be changed without taking the forks off. Thinking of getting k-tech springs and fresh oil, and would prefer not to take it all to bits if poss. I'm guessing the oil could be sringed out ( maybe not 100%, but 95% ).

Ta

No problem, as long as you can turn the bike upside down.

Otherwise, take out the fork legs and do it properly.
Why can't you just take out a fork leg? Not exactly difficult.

[leevtr]

I Can, just didint want to if I dont have to.

Not just popping a fork leg out is it. I do believe its connected to fender, wheel, caliper. Got to suspend front end some how. 5 mins it aint.

I like to take my bike apart as little as poss. Thats probably why I don't have loads of shitty problems with it. But if its a must to achieve the end goal, then so be it.

I just thought I'd check, before doing a load of unnecessary work.

[Eclectic]

I too had mine done at MCT as forum members know. Not sure what he used but they were weight related. HUGE difference to my bike. JD-man took her for a wee spin the other night and seemed to like the front aswell. Well worth giving them a look.

[budd]

UPDATE, it's when a while since I updated this post which was originally basically fork some simple questions, as I said it's been a while and it's only now that I've been able to really evaluated the mods I've made, even a trip to the TT didn't allow me any real opportunity to push the storm ( wet weather and very busy roads conspired to make this yrs TT very frustrating) anyway I've the just got back from the Isle of Man again (Manx GP this time) and this time I managed to get some miles under my belt, (not as many as I would've like the weather was still a bit changeable) but the roads are much quieter with fewer idiots which in turn allowed me to ride like tw@.

So after all the messing I have arrived at the setup below, please bear in mind that budget (or lack of) as been a forefront consideration to idea been to obtain a worthwhile improvement for minimal cash out lay.
So currently I have:
Yacugar spring kit, matched progressive springs front and rear, tapered rebound rods, 7.5wt oil, and Yacugar specified 160mm air gap the forks are dropped through the yokes 5mm, std rear shock (with aforementioned spring), 3mm damper spacer I was using a 6mm spacer but on fitting the 190 rear tyre (Pirelli supercorsas) this proved to much so I halved it to 3mm and that’s about it, another thing worth mentioning is that prior to moddin’ anything I stripped / checked / cleaned / greased all the linkages and bearings, overhauled the brakes fitting new seals, Goodbridge hoses and Motul RBFfluid I changed the pads to SBS Sinter front and rear, I think to often people spend money on mods before making sure the basics are right.

So have the changes been worthwhile? The answer is yes, it’s much more ‘planted’ and confidence inspiring, stable at speed but turns in and holds it’s line reasonably well, although this area could be better (I think could be in part due to the rear tyre profile) and I’ll tweak the ride heights etc in an attempt to improve this although I think a return to a 180 rear tyre will be on the cards, the only real issue I have is I believe a failing rear damper on occasion the rear feels a little odd, as if the shock can’t cope further evidence of this can be seen in the rear tyre which is showing signs of tearing as if it’s interaction with the road surface isn’t properly under control, however I’m not a analytical test rider and my results are for from scientific or definitive, I think we all accept the short comings of the OE suspension and the course of action to improve it is always going to be the same more front spring, less rear and hopefully improve the front damping.

OK that’s a very simplistic view but IMHI essentially correct. It’s how we choose to go about it that differs depending on circumstances, I don’t believe there’s a right and wrong way and I’m certainly not advocating my own set up as the ‘bee’s knees’ it’s not and I’d do it differently if tasked with doing it again (I’ll come to why later) I choose a ‘budget’ DIY route because I can’t justify spending wads of cash on a 16 yrs old bike, but many people are prepared to invest more in their bike and farm the work out to a specialist or replace the whole front end and fit an exotic suspension parts etc, and while there is definitely gains to be made in spending more money (if spent in he right place) but it’s a case of diminishing returns once the basic spring issues have been addressed subsequent improvements become much more expensive while also becoming smaller and more subtle.

So what would I do differently, firstly I’d fit linear body weight matched springs, I was a little cautious when I choose the springs going for progressive and while they offer a huge improvement over OE I believe linear would be that bit better, although for general riding the progressive items offer a great balance in all riding situations, secondly I’d probably try to find the funds for a replacement rear damper, whether that be a aftermarket (nitron, ohlins etc) or a adapted Honda damper would be governed in my case by available funds but I think almost any thing would be an improvement on the obviously tired 16yr old original, so what now? well riding the thing would be nice but the weather is so poor I’m not get out on it as much as I’d like, but I’m now on the lookout for a suitable damper, S/H ones occasionally pop up on ebay or even on here, and I may change the springs to linear at some point probably over the winter.

I hope the above is interesting even helpful and I say again it’s not meant to be a definitive ‘how to’ just a brief description of my real life experience, any comments welcome

[lloydie]

Linear spring are the way foreword if you like to play hard .
But if you like to just plod around then progressive is the answer .
Getting it set up to how you like it is a long hard challenge for wet and dry use .
Having confidence in the bike is key and knowing how each change works but it needs to be ridden hard to find how it works .
Best of luck with getting it right for yourself and your needs

[Flatline]

Leevtr, I have K-Tech fitted

They are the same length as the originals so used the spacer tube

[budd]

Leevtr, I have K-Tech fitted

They are the same length as the originals so used the spacer tube

the OE spring is 310mm with a 100mm spacer regardless of the spring fitted the total free length should be 410mm, some aftermarket springs (like mine and Tony-mons ) are 410mm so don't use the spacer, K-tech are obviously shorter (stock length) so do need a spacer, the only way to be sure is to measure the choosen spring and retain, remove or cut the spacer to suit (it's possible some springs fall somewhere between 310 - 410mm so the spacer would need cutting to make the correct 410mm free length)