Manual CCT adjustment

General Bike chat
User avatar
leevtr
Posts: 2105
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:16 pm
Location: Romford, Essex

Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by leevtr »

Ckennedy wrote:Right so rear cover off, and check chain tension till there is about 7mm. Then just remember how many turns I did the rear one and transfere to the front one?
Thats what I did, had no problems.

CCt all the way in ( fingers only ) till chain tight. Then each turn out measure chain slack. Now you know how many turns from fully in it takes to get 7 mm slack, you can do the same for the front cylinder, without removing the front cover. Remember to set your TDC for each cylinder though.
" It was 2 minutes 5 minutes ago "
User avatar
Rob
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 7:38 pm
Location: Stoke-on-Trent

Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by Rob »

Image

Looking at the piccy maybe if something was under pressure then the chain could slip over the sprocket. I'll follow the workshop guide here anyway just to be sure :thumbup:

Yes CCT's can still fail with the stopper mod but no damage will be done - I've read on here about manuals unwinding and that could be disastrous. I know many people are happy with manuals I'm just hoping I'll do the stopper mod and forget it.
'02 VTR1000-FY Yellow.
'12 Moto Guzzi Griso 8V SE Tenni.
User avatar
VTRDark
Posts: 20010
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:24 pm

Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by VTRDark »

Right so rear cover off, and check chain tension till there is about 7mm. Then just remember how many turns I did the rear one and transfere to the front one?
Woh, so your doing the front as well. I think it's best you follow Sirche's instructions with regards to fitting cct's and timing. Treat it as if you are replacing them.

If you timing is set to RT for the rear, before moving on to the front you need to turn the flywheel 1 1/4 turns anti-clockwise until the timing is on FT. If it was me I would remove the front cam cover as well and verify that the cam lobes are the opposite to what the front was. So they would be pointing upwards and outwards. Then you can get the tension spot on rather than relying on feel. You can also verify that you are for sure on the compression stroke from the position of the cam lobes.

The thing with manuals is that they are all good as long as they are set up right and the tension is right. If you get it too tight it causes stress and wear on engine components, mainly the bearings. If you get it too loose, you risk the chain jumping off the teeth. Counting turns from the rear will not get you spot on as both chains will have different amounts of wear and one may have more stretch in it. It should get you close though. It's also a good idea as a preventative measure to put some thread lock/silicone along the thread on the tensioner which seals inside where the thread goes through the tensioner body. This acts as a brake if for some reason the locknut does become loose in the future and stop the cct unwinding at warp speed.

(:-})
==============================Enter the Darkside
User avatar
VTRDark
Posts: 20010
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:24 pm

Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by VTRDark »

I've read on here about manuals unwinding and that could be disastrous
This is why thread lock/silicone is used on the thread. I personally used gasket seal on mine and put some on the surface where the lock nut tightens up. It also prevents any slight oil leakage that may creep out and around the thread which would aid in loosening things up ie the locknut.

I fitted mine just under a year ago and have had no problems. No rattles, No oil leakage, and no loose nut (minus myself :roll: ). I don't expect to need to adjust them until they have covered about 20,000 - 30,000 which IIRC is the service interval for auto's.

(:-})
Last edited by VTRDark on Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
==============================Enter the Darkside
User avatar
AMCQ46
Posts: 16742
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 4:54 pm
Location: Worcestershire / Warwickshire border

Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by AMCQ46 »

Rob wrote:Image

Looking at the piccy maybe if something was under pressure then the chain could slip over the sprocket. I'll follow the workshop guide here anyway just to be sure :thumbup:

Yes CCT's can still fail with the stopper mod but no damage will be done - I've read on here about manuals unwinding and that could be disastrous. I know many people are happy with manuals I'm just hoping I'll do the stopper mod and forget it.
Rob, you need to be at tdc on the firing stroke when you take the CCT out. If the cam is pushing down on a valve, as soon as the chain is slack the valve spring will be able to push the cam and this will make it turn and then it will jump the chain by at least 1 tooth.
Follow the instructions and it will all be ok, but don't take shortcuts
AMcQ
User avatar
VTRDark
Posts: 20010
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:24 pm

Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by VTRDark »

firing stroke
Do you mean compression Al :wink: well technically it's in between the two at TDC. :lol:

(:-})
==============================Enter the Darkside
User avatar
leevtr
Posts: 2105
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:16 pm
Location: Romford, Essex

Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by leevtr »

I did combine my method of finding the correct tension with Sirch's guide to installation, so if you were to find this and print it off, wouldn't be a bad thing.
" It was 2 minutes 5 minutes ago "
User avatar
AMCQ46
Posts: 16742
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 4:54 pm
Location: Worcestershire / Warwickshire border

Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by AMCQ46 »

Yes compression, wih both valves shut and cam lobes facing towards each other on the rear :thumbup:

And lee, I liked your method and that's the one I was describing to Chris
AMcQ
User avatar
Rob
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 7:38 pm
Location: Stoke-on-Trent

Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by Rob »

i shall follow the instructions carefully :thumbup:

Do you know if anyone has ever had a CCT failure with the stopper mod? As there is little spring movement I would think probably not.
'02 VTR1000-FY Yellow.
'12 Moto Guzzi Griso 8V SE Tenni.
User avatar
Ckennedy
Posts: 3560
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:57 pm
Location: Leicestershire

Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by Ckennedy »

HELP!!!!!!! I have done the tensioners, followed the guide on here and now I have no low end power at all. There was less than 7mm play in the chain. Could I have got the stacks the wrong way round or has it jumped a tooth or two? Need the bike for tomorrow :s any tips?
User avatar
VTRDark
Posts: 20010
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:24 pm

Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by VTRDark »

Are you sure you got the timing spot on. As far as the chain jumping a tooth or two you would normally hear it slip when loosening them off. Did it feel smooth when loosening them with no clicky sounds or anything. I would double check you got the timing spot on with the front cylinder. You may have it 180 degrees out. The flywheel has to be turned 1 1/4 turns anti clockwise, so you will see the FT mark once and then when it comes around again it will be 1 1/4 turns.

Stacks being on the wrong way around wont make that drastic a change, but long one goes on the rear and short on the front. You could check your vacuum hose is back in the right place on the tank as it's a simple check, BTBH I don't think this would cause this either, but it's worth checking.

I would check your timing. But the only way to do this is to remove the cam sprockets. You can verify whether anything has jumped teeth by the position of the cam and cam sprockets. You will see an FI for front inlet which should be horizontal to the top of the engine casing.

Her is a pic of the rear cylinder.
Image The rear sprocket will be the opposite except it will have FE for front exhaust The rear cylinder will have RI and RE.
Image
Image
It's a little harder to see the RE as the frame gets in the way.

So front cylinder will be FI and FE and the rear cylinder will be RI and RE.

If you need to remove the front cam cover it will take you an extra 20mins as you need to remove the fairing, carbs and the plastic cowl below it. Loosen the bolt on the oil cooler and pull it forward out the way, and I think I may have needed to loosen the rads and pull them out the way as well. No need to undo any hoses on these. You can then gain access to the bolts on the front cam cover.

If you don't want to remove the front cam cover then set the rear timing to TDC ie flywheel on RT, then set the front to FT making sure it 1 1/4 turns so so the second time where you see the FT in the little window.

(:-})
Last edited by VTRDark on Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
==============================Enter the Darkside
User avatar
AMCQ46
Posts: 16742
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 4:54 pm
Location: Worcestershire / Warwickshire border

Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by AMCQ46 »

Chris,
take it apart again and re-check timing marks and then look everything you touched to make sure you pit it back in the right place. TPS, HT leads, rags in the air box etc
AMcQ
User avatar
leevtr
Posts: 2105
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:16 pm
Location: Romford, Essex

Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by leevtr »

Vacuum hose been put back on the right place??

I did this, thought I'd buggered the bike up !!
" It was 2 minutes 5 minutes ago "
User avatar
AMCQ46
Posts: 16742
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 4:54 pm
Location: Worcestershire / Warwickshire border

Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by AMCQ46 »

Lee I didnt mention this one as I was hoping Chris remembered that pitfall as I think he found this out a few weeks ago when he was over at Lloydies for some other work :D
AMcQ
User avatar
lloydie
Posts: 20928
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:16 pm
Location: In the garage somewhere in Coventry

Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by lloydie »

AMCQ46 wrote:Lee I didnt mention this one as I was hoping Chris remembered that pitfall as I think he found this out a few weeks ago when he was over at Lloydies for some other work :D
No we forgot to turn the fuel tap back on lol .
Start over Check its all set right .
Post Reply