Manual CCT adjustment

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Ckennedy
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Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by Ckennedy »

This is what the rear one looks like....
Rear cog
Image

Can not really see it but the making for the rear one looks to be in the same position as in Carls pic and the cam lobes are at the same angle looking at them.

front cog
Image

This would suggest it is the front cylinder to be at fault. How do I sort this out? Strip all the front end to remove the cam cover? If is has jumped what do I do next? Rain has put a stop on things for now :( :x :thumbdown:

Fuel tap was turned back on and the vacume pipe (the small one on the back of the tap) assuming that is what that goes. Any way to check the vacume pipe is working correctly before I strip the front end?
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lloydie
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Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by lloydie »

Check rear cylinder cam lobs on rt on the flywheel make sure their in correct place .
Check front cylinder on ft on the flywheel and see if they are set right
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VTRDark
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Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by VTRDark »

vacume pipe (the small one on the back of the tap)
That's correct
Any way to check the vacume pipe is working correctly before I strip the front end?
If it was working fine before there should be no reason why it not working now, but you may want to check the other end of that hose has not been accidently pulled of the rear cylinder. You can see it on the v side of the rear cylinder from the left hand side of the bike. There will be a nipple coming out the cylinder just below the carb inlet rubber that it attaches to as follows:
{edit} Oops I just realised this is a pic of the front cylinder not the rear, but it's the same on the rear and I have a pic further down that shows it clearly.{/edit}
Image


Rear cam sprockets in your pics look good. where the cam lobes pointing upwards and inwards like the following:
Image

Taking the front cam cover is not as bad as it sounds. It's just a pain because the fairing and carbs need to be removed.

1) remove front fairing, I assume you know how to do this. Remove mirrors and a few Allen bolts on fairing.
2) remove airbox and carbs. instructions here http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php ... bs#p217221
2) remove the plastic cowl that sits below the carbs. This is held in with plastic trim clips. Note how the TPS cable and the smaller plastic bit fits where the throttle cables run through.
3) From the front of the bike behind the front wheel, remove the two bolts that hold the Oil cooler in place. Then just pull the cooler down out the way.
3a) You may be able to gain access to the bolts on the cam cover now.
4) If not then remove the bolts that hold the rad in place and just pull them out the way like you did with the cooler.
5) you should defo be able to gain access to remove the front cam cover now.

Should take you around 20mins. :thumbup:

Once you have set the timing to FT on the flywheel the cam lobes should be the opposite to the rear and pointing upwards and outwards. Sorry I haven't a pic of that. Check the marking on the cam sprockets are horizontal with the casing FI and FE.

Here's a couple of pics with both the cam covers removed.
Image
Image

carbs and plastic cowl removed. You can also see the vacuum hose on the right. Note I have an extra vacuum hose that comes of the front cylinder for carb syncing purposes.
Image

Hope that helps.

(:-})
Last edited by VTRDark on Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Ckennedy
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Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by Ckennedy »

This is the front of the cylinder lobe.
Image

Looks out to me but what do you think?
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VTRDark
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Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by VTRDark »

That's you cam sprocket and that looks fine FE front exhaust. It may be slightly out less than 1 tooth but that's normal due to chain wear.

the cam lobes are the pointy bits on the cam.
ImageThis is how the rear should look. The front will be the oposite with the lobes pointing upwards and outwards.

I got to pop out now but I will PM you my mobile number if you get stuck or have any questions.

(:-})
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Stratman
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Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by Stratman »

cybercarl wrote:
You only need set the cams when you are removing the CCT.
Actually thinking about it your probably right if just tightening up. But the tension is going to be released when undoing the tensioner to apply more threadlock which could cause the chain to jump teeth on the cam sprockets knocking the timing out. It's far easier/safer if the chain is not under tension :thumbup:

(:-})
I agree, if that is what you are doing, but not if your are just checking the deflection between the cams with the cover off :)
Two bikes, still only four cylinders!

Image
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Stratman
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Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by Stratman »

Rob wrote:This is one of the reasons I'm doing the stopper mod - no issues with adjustment.

Why does the timing need to be set when removing the CCT? I would have thought the chances of the chain jumping would be virtually nil unless you did something really stupid?

Sorry to go off topic, just always wondered about why everyone seems to stress the importance of it because it makes the job a lot longer and more complicated, but there could be something obvious I'm missing :oops:
Do not try to remove the CCT without having the cams in the right position. People stress the importance of it becasue it is important. It is not an IL4 where you could get away without having the engine in the right position. Not an opinion, a fact.
Two bikes, still only four cylinders!

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Ckennedy
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Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by Ckennedy »

Well I have just about lost hope. Had the whole front end in pieces, re adjusted the CCT's, everything back on as it came off, no loose connections that I can see. The chain has not managed to jump a tooth, everything is fine there. Like I said everything was fine yesterday but there was a slight rattle so adjusted the rear CCT and then remembered I had adjusted it all the way and not left the 7mm or so the chain needs. Ran the engine on the drive yesterday after adjusting them all the way in for 5-10 seconds and everything seemed fine. After that I remembered about the play needed in the chain so I left it be till today and now all hell as let loose. Has anyone any ideas? Really stuck on this. All I did this morning with the rear one was remover the fuel tank, air box, HT lead and cam cover. Adjusted and measured the play in the chain, put it all back together and now it does not want to run at all.
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lloydie
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Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by lloydie »

Check the ht lead .
Make sure it's fitted into the caps both ends .
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VTRDark
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Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by VTRDark »

Just reading through this.
I had adjusted it all the way and not left the 7mm or so the chain needs. Ran the engine on the drive yesterday after adjusting them all the way in for 5-10 seconds and everything seemed fine.
Hold on a minute. Let me get this right, the bike started with the tensioner all the way in, so the chain would have been at it tightest. :eek2 that's not good mate. I'm surprised the bike turned over and started. That would put a lot of stress and strain on the rear cylinder. Surly the the tension would be too tight for the starter to turn. :confused Did the bike struggle or turn over slowly when starting? I'm hoping I am wrong and I'm sorry to have to say this, but I think you need to do a compression check to make sure that no damage has been done here and rule it out as the cause of loss of power.

(:-})
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Ckennedy
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Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by Ckennedy »

It was only finger tight and then out 3/4 of a turn. And finger tight was not really very tight. Engine started fine no problems at all. Bike is finding it had to gain revs at all. Sometimes it will rev up as I turn the throttle and other times it will not. Ticks over OK but sometimes it dies a couple of minuets later. Made sure I have fuel coming out both sides of the fuel tap and everything is connected.
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VTRDark
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Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by VTRDark »

Phew, that's allright then. You had me worried for a moment. I wonder if it's a petrol tap diaphragm problem. If you turn the fuel tap on with no hoses connected you should not get loads of fuel pissing out. Maybe a little but not loads. The fuel should only come out under vacuum suction. Or maybe a blocked breather on the fuel tank.

(:-})
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Ckennedy
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Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by Ckennedy »

When I took the hoses off the tap and pressed the ignition there was quite a bit of fuel coming out. Only pressed the ignition switch for a second so I could see there was some coming out. But like I say there was a fair bit coming out. Running out of ideas now :(

Edit: Do not know if this has anything to do with it but the fumes coming from the right exhaust are colder than the ones from the left exhaust
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leevtr
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Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by leevtr »

Ckennedy wrote:It was only finger tight and then out 3/4 of a turn. And finger tight was not really very tight. Engine started fine no problems at all. Bike is finding it had to gain revs at all. Sometimes it will rev up as I turn the throttle and other times it will not. Ticks over OK but sometimes it dies a couple of minuets later. Made sure I have fuel coming out both sides of the fuel tap and everything is connected.
These are the exact symptoms I had when I reconnected the vacuum hose in the wrong place.
" It was 2 minutes 5 minutes ago "
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lloydie
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Re: Manual CCT adjustment

Post by lloydie »

leevtr wrote:
Ckennedy wrote:It was only finger tight and then out 3/4 of a turn. And finger tight was not really very tight. Engine started fine no problems at all. Bike is finding it had to gain revs at all. Sometimes it will rev up as I turn the throttle and other times it will not. Ticks over OK but sometimes it dies a couple of minuets later. Made sure I have fuel coming out both sides of the fuel tap and everything is connected.
These are the exact symptoms I had when I reconnected the vacuum hose in the wrong place.
taking bets on this whos game ?
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