TPS/Carb jetting/Cans!!

[Griff1977]

Actually I've tried putting it in gear, and frankly the clutch just slips, or the rear brake does.
It puts the chain under a great deal of stress as well.
But I don't like jamming something between the gear teeth, either, as this can push the balls in the large bearing behind the clutch into the seat, and cause indentations. So I prefer to use a clutch holding tool, and jam it against the footrest casting, with a bit of rag to stop it marking the softish alloy.
You'll need to remove the clutch plates, but that's only taking out the five clutch centre bolts and springs, and gives you a chance to inspect the basket for wear while you're there.

You have to put the clutch holding tool on with the handle UNDER the footrest casting in order to undo the crankshaft centre bolt holding the advance trigger on.

Tony, bought a EBC clutch removal tool so ready to go! Might do at weekend if time permits but might be in a few weeks. Cheers. Griff.

+4 advancer fitted!!! I'm real pleased I did it. After so much advice I was in a good place to fit it myself. The key was the EBC clutch holding tool- the centre bolt holding the advancer was chuffing tight!

Cable ties and retaining bolt used- worked perfectly!

Worst bit was cleaning/tidying up the old gasket on both faces. Used grease with new gasket in case I take it off again.

Put it all back together and new coolant in. Started first time but as it was 10.30pm I didn't run it for long!

Happy days. Griff.

[VTRDark]

A big well done And well done remembering grease on one side of the gasket too.

You must feel well pleased with yourself, a feel good factor, and at the same time saved a few penny's in the old pocket. A well deserved drink is order I think

(:-})

[lloydie]

Good job and well done .
Feels great when you did it your self :-)

[tony.mon]

Sorted, Well done.

[Griff1977]

Booked in to get my Factory Pro 1.7 carb kit fitted & dynoed, Weds! A place in Grimsby. Can't wait. He says he might struggle to achieve good carburation using the K&N but he will try (he says with experience).

I'd really like to make use of the K&N otherwise a waste ££s!?

Brill. Griff.

[seb421]

Booked in to get my Factory Pro 1.7 carb kit fitted & dynoed, Weds! A place in Grimsby. Can't wait. He says he might struggle to achieve good carburation using the K&N but he will try (he says with experience).

I'd really like to make use of the K&N otherwise a waste ££s!?

Brill. Griff.

If he can't sort it he should be in that line of business

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[VTRDark]

should

Did you miss a 't there Seb

Looking forward to the results of this Griff. Make sure you find out what what settings they use, especially the main jet sizes. It will be interesting to see if they need to go larger or smaller with the main air jets drilled out.

(:-})

[Griff1977]

should

Did you miss a 't there Seb

Looking forward to the results of this Griff. Make sure you find out what what settings they use, especially the main jet sizes. It will be interesting to see if they need to go larger or smaller with the main air jets drilled out.

(:-})

Will do fella. Excited !! Griff.

[Griff1977]

Guys

So I set off to the dyno centre at 0730 on Weds, with a BMC filter popped in night before after LeeVTR helpfully posted me his (Thanks Lee).

Weather was horrible - snow on ground and cold!! So a 40 mile ride.

Bike rode awfully, was a bucking bronko all the way there - I was quite concerned!! Hoping it was fuelling that would fix it.

So I got there at 0830 ish (after getting lost in industrial estate!) and after a cuppa and chat, bike goes on for first run. As expected, a horrible run - as I was experiencing on the way there.

So the standard filter goes back in. The chap has dropped hints that he doesn't think that the BMC filter will tune in. Next run is better - as expected. So much umming and arring,so FP needle installed. Run on BMC filter still poor, so standard filter in again, and I accept his suggestion of sticking with stock filter. I feel rubbish now as I've shelled out on BMC filter and we've now given up on it - but chap says that the machine doesn't lie and the VTR doesn't like free flowing air filters. The clip stays at the top of the needle.

I discuss the kits drills (see notes from FP kit below) - where it supplies two small drills to re-size the main air jets front and rear, and he disagrees as he doesnt like the idea of doing something that is irrecoverable (his experience of permanent alterations to carbs has proven that they weren't required in the first place), so another element of what I've bought that isn't being used.

So we get to the main jets. Stock were fr #175 and r #178. So with what he felt, he opted for fr #178 (from rear) and rear #172 (from kit) - and turned fuel screw out 2 and a half (after another run). Carbs balanced.

We kept the pilot jets standard at #45.

So another run on dyno, and he says its there (see graphs below).

After a test ride from me, there was an obvious bogging down when pulling away, through 1k-2.5-3k, then it picks up but then its real smooth and strong.

So when I brought it back, he leaned it off a little (to 2 turns out) - another ride and its still hesitant at low revs but picks up. But 'time' has run out, god Ive been there since 0830, with quite a few interruptions & coffee admittedly but its now 2pm!!

Summary:
After market cans, +4 advancer, stick coils, standard air filter, FP 1.7 kit (no drilling)
Front:
178 main
45 pilot
Needle clip top
A/F 2 turns

Rear:
172 main
45 pilot
Needle clip top
A/F 2 turns

Factory Pro kit notes:


All gears:


And
HP comparison (cant remember significance of this one):


And
4th gear HP & Tq


Now, here is the problem. Rightly or wrongly, I am left feeling disappointed. Why? Maybe my expectation compared with reality? I went there hoping the time spent on the dyno would create a near perfect experience at the end. Also, I've spent a lot of money on these bits, the FP kit which we only used the needle and one main jet. And, after getting hold of the BMC road filter at the 11th hour from LeeVTR, and then not using it, just seems really disappointing.

And now that that the result has left a hesitation low down, albeit it is nice and smooth mid and top range, I am left feeling strangely disappointed. For the time and dyno runs, he has charged me £250, which was more than expected but it did take a lot of his time! Dont get me wrong, I got on well with the bloke and he seemed to know what he was talking about but I still feel deflated.

Oh and to-boot, I had to chat with the local law enforcement when I was riding back - 52 in a 40, they have recommended a course but I will wait and see what I get in the post this week!! Looking at another £95 I guess!!

I just wonder what your opinions are, as a lot of you guys have so much more experience with the tuning side than me. One thing I wonder, is whether the place I went to are happier with power commander tuning rather than these 'old fashioned' carb kits? And maybe the bloke wasnt as confident? Not sure?

Mmmmmm, its a shame as I was so excited to go there and learn about the process, which I have, but am left thinking we could have achieved more if we had taken the plunge and done the drilling and experimented with the filter/main jets/pilots/more? The whole process of tank/airbox/carbs loosen - fiddle just takes so much time!!

Anyway, I dont want to lay into the bloke but any constructive feedback would be appreciated?

Oh, and the top end HP was quite nice, 108 and 110 through the gears!!

Laters, Griff

[AMCQ46]

108 is good, but the fluffing low down will piss you off the A/F line looks good as well

dont understand what the BMC is giving such a bad outcome, as I just dropped mine in and it got better..........are you sure its not the Race version

[seb421]

My feedback is he should be able to jet anything that's shoved in there.

All he's doing with jetting is regulating the air and fuel mixture with using the correct jetting for a given air flow.

If he had told me he couldn't jet a certain filter I would have turned around or asked him for his yellow pages to look for a real dyno man.

Its not wombles rocket science.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[edds11]

is it CM by any chance. if so he has a fairly good name, looks after a few local racers and a couple of small teams, but everyone has an of day

[Pete.L]

Harsh! But true Seb

I must admit its been a while since I,ve done any jetting on a Firestorm but I thought the bigger main jet was supposed to go in the rear ? As the rear pot runs slightly hotter you richer it up a tad to make it run cooler.

Pete.l

[seb421]

Well you know his settings now so you could try your own now and always revert back to his until you get it sorted some place else

stick the BMC back in,

try 48 pilots on both,

Try the Needles adjusting one clip richer as the bmc will flow more air

go up one size on the mains

and try the A/F at 2 on the front and 2 and a quarter on the rear

See how that feels, and keep making little changes from there....

you have his base settings to go back to if nothing else.


I have some 48 pilots you can have for free mate (send pm with address)


play about for abit then take it to a dyno for a power run

[leevtr]

Guys

So I set off to the dyno centre at 0730 on Weds, with a BMC filter popped in night before after LeeVTR helpfully posted me his (Thanks Lee).

Weather was horrible - snow on ground and cold!! So a 40 mile ride.

Bike rode awfully, was a bucking bronko all the way there - I was quite concerned!! Hoping it was fuelling that would fix it.

So I got there at 0830 ish (after getting lost in industrial estate!) and after a cuppa and chat, bike goes on for first run. As expected, a horrible run - as I was experiencing on the way there.

So the standard filter goes back in. The chap has dropped hints that he doesn't think that the BMC filter will tune in. Next run is better - as expected. So much umming and arring,so FP needle installed. Run on BMC filter still poor, so standard filter in again, and I accept his suggestion of sticking with stock filter. I feel rubbish now as I've shelled out on BMC filter and we've now given up on it - but chap says that the machine doesn't lie and the VTR doesn't like free flowing air filters. The clip stays at the top of the needle.

I discuss the kits drills (see notes from FP kit below) - where it supplies two small drills to re-size the main air jets front and rear, and he disagrees as he doesnt like the idea of doing something that is irrecoverable (his experience of permanent alterations to carbs has proven that they weren't required in the first place), so another element of what I've bought that isn't being used.

So we get to the main jets. Stock were fr #175 and r #178. So with what he felt, he opted for fr #178 (from rear) and rear #172 (from kit) - and turned fuel screw out 2 and a half (after another run). Carbs balanced.

We kept the pilot jets standard at #45.

So another run on dyno, and he says its there (see graphs below).

After a test ride from me, there was an obvious bogging down when pulling away, through 1k-2.5-3k, then it picks up but then its real smooth and strong.

So when I brought it back, he leaned it off a little (to 2 turns out) - another ride and its still hesitant at low revs but picks up. But 'time' has run out, god Ive been there since 0830, with quite a few interruptions & coffee admittedly but its now 2pm!!

Summary:
After market cans, +4 advancer, stick coils, standard air filter, FP 1.7 kit (no drilling)
Front:
178 main
45 pilot
Needle clip top
A/F 2 turns

Rear:
172 main
45 pilot
Needle clip top
A/F 2 turns

Factory Pro kit notes:


All gears:


And
HP comparison (cant remember significance of this one):


And
4th gear HP & Tq


Now, here is the problem. Rightly or wrongly, I am left feeling disappointed. Why? Maybe my expectation compared with reality? I went there hoping the time spent on the dyno would create a near perfect experience at the end. Also, I've spent a lot of money on these bits, the FP kit which we only used the needle and one main jet. And, after getting hold of the BMC road filter at the 11th hour from LeeVTR, and then not using it, just seems really disappointing.

And now that that the result has left a hesitation low down, albeit it is nice and smooth mid and top range, I am left feeling strangely disappointed. For the time and dyno runs, he has charged me £250, which was more than expected but it did take a lot of his time! Dont get me wrong, I got on well with the bloke and he seemed to know what he was talking about but I still feel deflated.

Oh and to-boot, I had to chat with the local law enforcement when I was riding back - 52 in a 40, they have recommended a course but I will wait and see what I get in the post this week!! Looking at another £95 I guess!!

I just wonder what your opinions are, as a lot of you guys have so much more experience with the tuning side than me. One thing I wonder, is whether the place I went to are happier with power commander tuning rather than these 'old fashioned' carb kits? And maybe the bloke wasnt as confident? Not sure?

Mmmmmm, its a shame as I was so excited to go there and learn about the process, which I have, but am left thinking we could have achieved more if we had taken the plunge and done the drilling and experimented with the filter/main jets/pilots/more? The whole process of tank/airbox/carbs loosen - fiddle just takes so much time!!

Anyway, I dont want to lay into the bloke but any constructive feedback would be appreciated?

Oh, and the top end HP was quite nice, 108 and 110 through the gears!!

Laters, Griff

First time I've seen any gumpf to do with FPJ, but even on their own recommendations it says use stock or equivalent air filter.