Track bike

[popkat]

1000cc bikes are only good, ideally, for long circuits with straights. General consensus is that they're too heavy and 600's are better in terms of power:weight.


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No, a 1000cc bike will be faster even on a short circuit, it's having the ability to use the bike to it's potential. But when learning or new to the track it's easier to learn on something smaller and less intimidating. Some riders can get the best out of a 600 but never master a 1000, others do though.

Well... Give me decent 600, and you can pick any 1000cc bike you like... I'll even give you a headstart... Unless the track is two long straights, I will catch you...

They are as fast, not faster... It's still the laws of physics that applies...

Is that a challenge well you'll have to come over and race with crmc for that. the bullshit stops when the flag drops
So you reckon 600 superstock bikes lap faster than 1000 superstock bikes ? don't think so. 600 lap times can get close on some circuits but a 600 won't beat a 1000.

[Miztaziggy]

This wasnt really supposed to be 600 vs 1000 really, it's about which 1000 is good price and good for track.

Im sorry but personally I don't think a 600 has a chance against a 1000 all being equal. People think they corner better but look at the stats and the weight and wheelbase are very similar, just almost 2x the power.

Take my video from last Friday, I am following my brother on his zx636. We are very similar riders. At Cadwell he was slightly faster in the corners, but I could pass him pretty easily. In fact I did quite a few times, then had to slow down, or not hammer it down the straights so he could go back in front.

Take the guy on the sit up bike that overtakes me toward the end of the video. He is much better (or experienced) track day rider, so he takes me on a corner only to rag the shite outta his bike on the exit and I fly past making him look like he is going backwards. He couldn't get away and it was obvious he was getting frustrated.

Also there was a really slow guy on a blade and a guy on a VFR behind him. The guy on the VFR couldn't pass because although the blade was really slow in the bends, he couldn't take him on the straights and the blade kept pulling away.

I have very little experience on track days and I found it hard to overtake on corners too, so I found the power to get past people that were only slightly slower by blasting past on the straights a good thing.

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[Miztaziggy]

And thank you popkat that makes sense.

I'll have a look for k3.

What is fork offset though? How do you modify it for track bikes?

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[Kev L]

Easy with the Richard swinging there chaps!!!!

[adyf]

Kawasaki zxr750r cheap tough great front end ,just don't shut off,my mate has one and going to squires bendy route its all I can do to stay with him and I don't piss about on them roads

[popkat]

oops forum digression as usual


Look at the top yoke on your bike, where the forks poke through draw a line across to connect them and measure down to the centre nut (hole centre to hole centre), the distance is the fork offset, tbh it's complicated to explain and in depth more than my knowledge, but the race teams changed the yokes for ones with a different offset or adjustable ones, there are ways to mask it by playing with ride height front and rear but that won't cure it. In saying that they can go quick on track and had production racing success until the GSXR1000 came out, although it's also fair to say the R1 didn't have any competition until then.

[fabiostar]

a good 600 or 636 is all you need until you pull in. look at your tyres and the rubbers is falling of them ,then you need a faster bike.. its all very well having twice the power but putting it down on tarmac takes more than just a wee bit of practice..and theres nothing better in the world than stuffing some guy up the inside of a hairpin on a 600 type. he can blast past all he wants on the straights. but that proves feck all. .and don't get hung up on lap times. its for track day use. not racing.. track days are for fun, they will never be racing,there aint no points or prize money its just FUN....

[Tweety]

Is that a challenge well you'll have to come over and race with crmc for that. the bullshit stops when the flag drops
So you reckon 600 superstock bikes lap faster than 1000 superstock bikes ? don't think so. 600 lap times can get close on some circuits but a 600 won't beat a 1000.

If I had the funds I'd gladly pop over and race...

No, not faster... As fast... It's just that I'm a bit less sane than most... I either finish first, or I finish in the kitty litter...

[Tweety]

This wasnt really supposed to be 600 vs 1000 really, it's about which 1000 is good price and good for track.

Im sorry but personally I don't think a 600 has a chance against a 1000 all being equal. People think they corner better but look at the stats and the weight and wheelbase are very similar, just almost 2x the power.

Take my video from last Friday, I am following my brother on his zx636. We are very similar riders. At Cadwell he was slightly faster in the corners, but I could pass him pretty easily. In fact I did quite a few times, then had to slow down, or not hammer it down the straights so he could go back in front.

Take the guy on the sit up bike that overtakes me toward the end of the video. He is much better (or experienced) track day rider, so he takes me on a corner only to rag the shite outta his bike on the exit and I fly past making him look like he is going backwards. He couldn't get away and it was obvious he was getting frustrated.

Also there was a really slow guy on a blade and a guy on a VFR behind him. The guy on the VFR couldn't pass because although the blade was really slow in the bends, he couldn't take him on the straights and the blade kept pulling away.

I have very little experience on track days and I found it hard to overtake on corners too, so I found the power to get past people that were only slightly slower by blasting past on the straights a good thing.

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Ok... Just a sidenote, the 600 vs 1000 being fastest aside... Having seen to many guys go on a track with a 1000 only to end up developing bad habits, which makes the 600 guys faster than them, I'd suggest going for a 600 first, then upgrading when you can use that 600 to it's limits... It's better for learning, and saves you some money in the long run...

But if you're dead set on a 1000, I'd say a GSXR is the hands down given choice to get as a track bike...

Look at it this way... Most tracks have more corners than they have straights long enough to "squirt past" on... Get yourself comfortable on the corners, and the straights make less of a difference... I get beaten regularily on the straigths... Only to sail past the guy as he starts braking a mile from the corner... What I lose on the straight, I make up in 2-3 corners, and over a lap, I'm as fast as most guys on bigger bikes, or faster, except for a select few around my local tracks... And they beat me just as soundly if they are on a 400, as they do on a 1000... It's not about the bike, it's the rider...

[lloydie]

r1 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330951811043? ... 1586.l2649

[sirch345]

oops forum digression as usual


Look at the top yoke on your bike, where the forks poke through draw a line across to connect them and measure down to the centre nut (hole centre to hole centre), the distance is the fork offset, tbh it's complicated to explain and in depth more than my knowledge, but the race teams changed the yokes for ones with a different offset or adjustable ones, there are ways to mask it by playing with ride height front and rear but that won't cure it. In saying that they can go quick on track and had production racing success until the GSXR1000 came out, although it's also fair to say the R1 didn't have any competition until then.

Have a look at this courtesy of KTM and Google:-


Chris.

[VTRDark]

Here's another explanation for the Rake and Trail that Hawk recently wrote.
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... hilit=rake

(:-})

[Miztaziggy]

Thanks guys very useful explanation, though I'm not sure at my level of skill I would notice any thing wrong for a good while.

I will start looking for a k3 and if I can't find within my budget, try R1s.

Ideally I would like a road bike I think, then take bits off for the track myself.

That R1 looks good but I would need a generator to use that on track days.

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[mik_str]

Get yourself a chromed up Hardley........ you may not be fastest, but the sun reflecting off all teh gleaming chrome will blind the other riders, causing them to slow down, and letting you just cruise by..... Who cares if your riding improves, you`re riding a Hardley!

[Miztaziggy]

I can't find a K3 for the money I have

I have found these:

http://www2.autotrader.co.uk/search/use ... cc/page/26

http://www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified ... ?logcode=p

http://www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified ... ?logcode=p

Quite tempted by the really cheap R1, but I don't like the sound of it running wide on me.

How poor are the brakes on the K1?