CCT and woe is me

[Stratman]

Still haven't got her back. Front valves replaced but there was still a misfire high up the rev range, like the kill switch being momentarily applied. Everything swapped over with a donor bike (Ignition/carbs, you name it - still the same) Looks like when the CCT went it also caused a hairline crack, either in the head, or, as apparently can happen, has distorted the bore.

We would have swapped parts with the donor bike to see, but, guess what, that's exactly what happened to that one.

I really thought I was doing well at 37,000 miles without a hiccup!

Now looking for a replacement engine as thats prob cheaper than new cylinder/head etc.

Wanted to get the bike back so badly - now I don't know if I'll ever have the confidence to do the trips I used to and will probably have to think of a change to a Fazer Thou or something. Pity, 'cos we've been together a long while.

BTW, my Mondeo (same year, '98) has done 140,000 without a murmur. Surely one should expect more than 37,000 from a bike? The ST1100's run to great mileages, but there aren't too many about with my mileage and I'm beginning to see why.

Oh bugger.

[delmeekc]

I have an engine partly stripped (when i bought it it had only done a few k, I was told) with the mounting lugs broke off it. Also have a donar set of main cases with lugs intact. A pair of second hand moriwaki pistons (need a set of gudgion pins, have standard set but they need lathing shorter), also have a pair of ported and gasflowed heads (need putting together) box of cams and valves (maybe a set of reprofiled ones in the box but hard to tell) too. All will need shiming up and putting together but am open to offers as don't have the time to do anything anymore. Also have new con rods, standard pistons, billet crank, clutches, carbs etc.etc

[sirch345]

Still haven't got her back. Front valves replaced but there was still a misfire high up the rev range, like the kill switch being momentarily applied. Everything swapped over with a donor bike (Ignition/carbs, you name it - still the same) Looks like when the CCT went it also caused a hairline crack, either in the head, or, as apparently can happen, has distorted the bore.

We would have swapped parts with the donor bike to see, but, guess what, that's exactly what happened to that one.

Oh bugger.

Hi Paul,
What a situation to be in, I bet your mechanic bloke can't believe it either.
I don't wish to sound as if i'm trying to state the obvious here, but surely using a doner bike is a good idea, but only if its not got the same problem as your's, what i'm trying to say is if you swap over carburation or electrical parts as you have done, the chances are you could be changing a faulty part for another faulty part
To put it bluntly you need to be using a doner bike without the same problem as yours.
I do hope you can get it sorted very soon.
All the best mate,

Chris.

[Pete.L]

I have an engine partly stripped (when i bought it it had only done a few k, I was told) with the mounting lugs broke off it. Also have a donar set of main cases with lugs intact. A pair of second hand moriwaki pistons (need a set of gudgion pins, have standard set but they need lathing shorter), also have a pair of ported and gasflowed heads (need putting together) box of cams and valves (maybe a set of reprofiled ones in the box but hard to tell) too. All will need shiming up and putting together but am open to offers as don't have the time to do anything anymore. Also have new con rods, standard pistons, billet crank, clutches, carbs etc.etc

Bloody Hell!! Del's back in town
Where you bin hidin Matey
Pete.l

[John W]

Hi im a new VTR owner and had exactley the same failure as you have described (front CCT failure 2 bent exhaust valves) I have replaced complete front head with second hand one and now have a misfire above 6500 revs . i have checked everything with donar bike ignition carbs etc, it is doing my head in!!!Did you fix yours or not yet?My email is john.watson@ponsse.com

Cheers John

[roadrun_fr]

When did the CCT fail ? A few miles after valve clearance operation ?

What kind of CCT fail ? White/Pink/Orange DOT on it ?

[bluesman]

When did the CCT fail ? A few miles after valve clearance operation ?

What kind of CCT fail ? White/Pink/Orange DOT on it ?

Hey man, judging by your posts here and on Superhawk board CCTs got you as paranoid as most of us are about CCT failure...
I watched people complains on all boards and beleive me - there is no system, statistical truth or example. All you can do is to hope you not affected. The only way to take control of this in your own hands is to install manual CCTs (IMHO Orient Express ones), and bear with need to adjust them...
What is interesting is that percentage of SHawks affected in UK is quite big, and that if CCT failed once seems that that bike generally prone to such failure....I changed CCTs on mine after 30 000 km just as part of tests I been doing...just did ultra-hard (for bike) ride 3500 through Bretagne and then Clermont-Ferrand, Volcanos etc and back to Belgium - no probs. Will it fail tomorrow? Don't know - may be yest may be not...

[roadrun_fr]

Hey man, judging by your posts here and on Superhawk board CCTs got you as paranoid as most of us are about CCT failure...

Yep but you know I like my VTR so much

The only way to take control of this in your own hands is to install manual CCTs (IMHO Orient Express ones), and bear with need to adjust them...

Yes I'm seriously thinking about it
Too bad, I didn't know there are so often CCT failures when I did my valve clearance check .... I'd have thought to install Manual CCTs at same time.....
My 2001 VTR is about 27 000 kms ( 16 000 Miles), pink dot CCT, what would you do if you were me ?

[bluesman]

difficult question. My own IMHO rule book says: replace CCTs on any Honda every 30 000 km. My dealer says that he had quite a few CBR600s with CCT failure, but does not see shocking numbers for VTRs. I guess I probably bad example miself, because I do not do high mileage daily, I more of "long rideouts" guy (you know - Belgium, too many police and speed cameras and I am paranoid about loosing my driver license as I live in 50 km from work), plus I do not go to work with my bike, as my company pays for fuel if I use company car...
But I heard quite a few comments about previous edition of CCT, so I just installed "orange dot" when I hit 30 000 just to see what happens. Also, I run about 3000 on Kawasaki CCTs that I adopted for Storm as compromise between manual and Honda CCTs.
If you just had valves adjustment I'd install new CCTs. It is 1-2 hour work, as I do not remove valve covers - I am using method of setting correct position of crancshaft to avoid chain jumping. I did it at 30 000 and ran happily for 4000 km since...

But if you drive like people in Paris then if I be you I'd change my CCTs for sure, and I'd change for Orient Express manual CCTs. IMHO.

[roadrun_fr]

How do you check timing marks without removing valve cover ?
remove one bolt on front cover ?

How do you remove/fit the front CCT ? No need to remove tank/aifilter/carbs/etc..... ?

I don't see APE manual CCT for VTR on their site... just CBRs ... the same ?

[Max]

APE do ones for the storm, they are similar to the Orient express ones.

http://www.debben.co.uk/acatalog/Billet ... ioners.pdf

[bluesman]

How do you check timing marks without removing valve cover ?
remove one bolt on front cover ?

How do you remove/fit the front CCT ? No need to remove tank/aifilter/carbs/etc..... ?

I don't see APE manual CCT for VTR on their site... just CBRs ... the same ?

To check timing marks you just need to remove 2 round plug bolts/covers on left side of engine - one in center and one on perimeter.

There is good write-up on that procedure on US forum (I saw you been writing to that tread too), but actually I was not sure about why you need to still look at cam lobes - if you check in workshop manual when you set position right you in both cases your cams not in position to push valves, so it does not matter...but let me come back home, get photos from workshop manual so I can illustrate my point.

You do need to remove tank and airfilter to change front CCT, but it is not much work....

Manual CCTs both APEs and OEs seem to be same model as for CBR900.

[sirch345]

I afraid I don't agree with that entirely.
If you only line up the marks on the end of the crankshaft you have a 50% chance of the camshaft's being in the right position, you need to remove the camshaft cover's to make sure you are on the right stroke, (the correct revolution of the crankshaft) you could be 180 degrees out. The cylinder you are working on needs to be on the compression stroke, if its not when you remove the CCT the cam chain then being under tension will jump the teeth on the camshaft which means you will then have messed up the valve timing on that cylinder. You will then have a major job on your hands

Chris.

[bluesman]

If you just blindly turn engine - yes, you absolutely right.
If you know what you doing and accurately turn cranckshaft by small wrench by hand when making full rotation you can perfectly well feel and hear when camshaft lobes on each cylinder clearing valves...may be I am expecting too much from whoever will do it - there you right, and I am eating my words and fully supporting your opinion - if it is done by inexperience person better to check...
I haven't got it wrong using "feel" with any of 1 or2 cyl bikes I had...with fours I can not do it at all...obviously. Fortunately Storm got such steep lobes and such strong valve springs I had no trouble doing it about 10 times (while working on Kawasaki CCTs adoption)...
And - BTW (just in case if it will be any use)- highest chances of chain jumping is when marks are not 100% aligned, in this situation chances are higher than if you 180 degrees out. Also - better to do it on cold engine when bike was stationary for a day at least...for oil on surfaces reason.. I know it's obvious, just trying to tell all I know

[tony.wilde1]

this is the main reason why i got rid of my vtr.once you here about cct trouble it sours you off the bike.even with my modified ones in i still couldnt trust it.