43 tooth sprocket. No room to align wheel.

[Image]

Fitted new chain and 43 tooth rear sprocket. Feels great but wheel misaligned and no room to align it with 43 tooth sprocket on there as yet. Will there be room once the chain stretches a bit?

[Wicky]

How many links on the chain? Wouldn't risk riding it if the wheel is misaligned.

[cheekykev]

You need to go down a tooth on the front from a 16 to a 15, in fact that's what you should have done first
That's what I'm running with, but be careful while you get used to it
it will be very lively

Mines 15 tooth front and 43 tooth rear, great fun, speedo's a mile though

[Image]

Brand new chains usually slacken an inch or so pretty soon after fitting so I'm hoping it'll only be a temporary problem. I don't want to alter the front sprocket as that's what makes the chain wear out faster.

[Wicky]

Did you buy a longer chain to compensate for the larger sprocket or did you buy a standard chain?

[Image]

Standard.
I'll see what it's like after a few miles. I usually find that chains stretch a fair bit for the first 100 miles or so.

[8541Hawk]

You need to go down a tooth on the front from a 16 to a 15, in fact that's what you should have done first
That's what I'm running with, but be careful while you get used to it
it will be very lively

Mines 15 tooth front and 43 tooth rear, great fun, speedo's a mile though

Running 15\43 gearing is something I have never understood, so maybe you can enlighten me on why it is so good.

I say this because if you do the math to figure out the final drive ratios (or use the gearing commander web site) you will see that by gearing down that low all you have accomplished is to have replaced 6th gear with a 1st gear that is too low to have any use.

All the other gears end up being close enough to be called the same as a 16\41 geared bike running 1 gear lower in the transmission.

What this means is if you are in 3rd with 15\43 gearing you will have the same final drive ratio as a 16\41 geared bike in 2nd...... so both will "punch" out of the corner at the same rate ..... correct?

The only reason I can see for this gearing would be if you were unable to shift into 1st gear. Though to me that is more of a set up or riding technique issue, not a gearing problem.

I have asked other why they run this gearing and usually only hear things like "it feels good" as a reply. Though when I point out the final ratios are the same as stock gearing, if you move your left toe slightly, things usually go downhill and the discussion stops and the personal BS starts.

This is not what I'm trying to do here, I really am trying to understand if I missed anything but so far no one has ever given a real reason why that low of gearing is a good thing except for a track only situation when a close ratio gearbox is out of the budget.

For a road going bike, I just can not see a single positive of gearing that low.

I can see going +2 in the rear or -1 up front if you decide you need a bit lower gearing but any lower than that and it just stops making sense IMHO for the reasons I have listed.

The last thing is also with that low of gearing, I would think 1st could actually be a bit dangerous.

I say this because if you accidentally downshift into first (and I know I have done it a time or two.... hauling the mail and downshifting for a corner.....) things can get a bit dicey with the stock gearing... I wonder how much of a handful the bike would be in that situation with the ultra low 1st?

So sorry to semi-rant about your gearing choice. It really is just that I am trying to understand what is the draw and why it is run.

[8541Hawk]

Fitted new chain and 43 tooth rear sprocket. Feels great but wheel misaligned and no room to align it with 43 tooth sprocket on there as yet. Will there be room once the chain stretches a bit?

You should have no issues lining things up with a 43T sprocket.

The first thing to ask is what rear tire (or tyre) you are running and do you have a hugger or a swingarm brace?

These three things can have an affect on how much room you have to work with.

[cheekykev]

Running 15\43 gearing is something I have never understood, so maybe you can enlighten me on why it is so good.

Well I don't really want to get into a lengthy discussion about this so I'll try and keep it brief.
It all started when I got my first FireStorm about 13 years ago, I found the bike, and the gearing fine except it was very lumpy around town and tight slow bends, 1st gear was too snatchy and 2nd gear just tried to shake all the bolts out, so I just ended up slipping the clutch all the time in these situations.
I loved everything else about the bike, so to try and sort this out I asked someone at Quill who knows a lot more than me about these sort of things, and he said try it with a smaller sprocket on the front, i.e. 15 tooth, this I did and found it a lot better
About 9 years ago I sold that FireStorm and got another, knowing full well about my dislike I had with my first one I again changed the front sprocket to a 15, when I told the guy I was doing this he said that to get the correct wheel base length and chain length I would need to raise the back to 43, he did warn me that this would probably bring it back to pretty much the same has the original setup, he also said it might be a bit quicker off the mark, would lose some top end and the speedo would be well out, to which I replied, well I'll give it a try nothing to lose, anyway maybe it was more luck than judgment, but he was right, the bike was smoother on tight bends, mini roundabouts, more lively at the bottom end, lost some off the top end and my speedo is out, why I don't know, like yourself I'd like someone to explain it to me, all I can say is the bike suites me fine with this set up, it's a bit lively in 1st and 2nd gear but I'm used to it and like it that way.
I don't doubt your facts and figures are correct, even more so after the guy at the shop told me pretty much the same, but I don't really work like that, I usually work on the fact that if it feels right then it is right, if it feels right then it gives you more pleasure and confidence to enjoy it, to me that's what it's all about, I never listen to b***s**t, read S**t out of bike mags or bother too much about facts and figures I just go with how it feels.
This probably won't help your confusion much, but there ya go, there's not much I can do about that, but I always say don't knock it till you've tried it
As regards to Images post, I was merely trying to let him know that he may have been better off doing the front first to see how it feels but never mind hey I suppose we all have to do it our own way

[VTRDark]

I found the bike, and the gearing fine except it was very lumpy around town and tight slow bends, 1st gear was too snatchy and 2nd gear just tried to shake all the bolts out, so I just ended up slipping the clutch all the time in these situations.

Now that's interesting Kev because I experience the exact same thing around town. I find I either have to keep it in first and rev it high around the corner, snatchy or change gear mid corner which I don't particularly like. Or just take the corner slower than I would like to. The other option is to take it in second and it does not quite have enough revs to pull smoothly around and out the corner and judders a bit. It's like a choice between the two evils.

What was the speedo like with just the front 1 tooth less. Did show more or less than actual speed. I wouldn't mind if it showed more than actual speed as I know for example when I'm doing 30 through cameras I have that extra, for want of a better word, safety precaution in case I go through a little faster.

(:-})

[cheekykev]

Carl, you probably have more of a problem with it than most living where you do, sent you a PM with more info, hope it helps

[bigtwinthing]

hi ive fitted a rear 43 tooth sprocket with a standard chain and standard front sprocket, make sure your adjusters screw fully in and it just fits with almost perfect chain adjustment.

My mates adjusters held off from fully screwing in by about 2 turns and his wouldnt fit, we removed and cleaned the adjusters and then it fitted.
check and retry, make sure you have the right an=mouny=t of links to start with though.
oh and personally standard front and 43 rear is the nuts for me!!!

[Pete.L]

hi ive fitted a rear 43 tooth sprocket with a standard chain and standard front sprocket, make sure your adjusters screw fully in and it just fits with almost perfect chain adjustment.

My mates adjusters held off from fully screwing in by about 2 turns and his wouldnt fit, we removed and cleaned the adjusters and then it fitted.
check and retry, make sure you have the right an=mouny=t of links to start with though.
oh and personally standard front and 43 rear is the nuts for me!!!

+1
It's a tight fit but should lign up straight once the chain is over the sprocket. I never remember having a problem but I do remember another occasion where one of my adjusters got some crap in the thread and started to sieze up.
Give them a good clean and try again.

Pete.l

[8541Hawk]

I don't doubt your facts and figures are correct, even more so after the guy at the shop told me pretty much the same, but I don't really work like that, I usually work on the fact that if it feels right then it is right, if it feels right then it gives you more pleasure and confidence to enjoy it, to me that's what it's all about, I never listen to b***s**t, read S**t out of bike mags or bother too much about facts and figures I just go with how it feels.

So you, like the others I have asked this, have the same answer,"It Feels Better" and the common "I don't care what the math says" which to me is kind of silly as facts are facts
Which also leaves me to wonder about this statement:"I never listen to b***s**t, read S**t out of bike mags or bother too much about facts and figures"

Are you saying my statements are BS because I use math to back up my point? Just asking because that statement can be taken a few different ways.

This is what I can't understand. Unless you are riding around in 1st a stock geared bike will have the same final drive as a bike with 15\43 gearing just by running one gear lower in the gearbox.

i.e.
If you are in 2nd with 15\43 them 1st with 16\41 will have the same final drive ratio.
If you are in 3rd with 15\43 then 2nd with 16\41 will have the same final drive ratio.
etc........

This continues through the entire gearbox.

It is the reason I say that IMHO all you do with 15\43 gearing is give up 6th and replace it with a 1st so low that it is all but useless.

The way I see it, the only place you end up with a gearing advantage is if both bikes are in 1st.
Although with every VTR I have ridden the limiting factor for acceleration in 1st is how much throttle you can give it before it flips over backwards.....or just how high you loft the front wheel as you all know that once you lift the front end your acceleration slows, correct?
The start of any race shows this clearly.... loft the front wheel off the line...get left in the dust.
Keep the front wheel on or close to the ground and your drive is forward not up.
(More of that Math\Physics stuff but it is what it is..... )

This means that with the stock gearing, you will be able to give the bike more throttle off the line than a bike with 15\43 gearing, so which one will truly get off the line quicker?

All the other gears can be duplicated with a stock geared bike by running 1 gear lower in the gearbox, which will give the same acceleration.....so how can it "feel" any different?

Until you get to 6th with 15\43 gearing.... then the stock geared bike still has one more to go..... which can be used to either leave you in the dust or have a bike that can still cruse at a decent RPM if needed as this is a road bike correct?

So if you wish to run a ultra low gearing, more power to you but when you post that it is the gearing to run I would hope that you would have more reasons than "It Feels Better" or "(I never)bother too much about facts and figures" when shown there are no real gains to be had.

Which leaves me right where I started. Going -1 in the front or +2 i the rear makes sense if you wish to have lower gearing. Going any farther than that gives you no gains as the exact same thing can be accomplished by downshifting 1 gear with a stock set up.

For my experience..... when I bought this bike 16years ago, yeah I was not happy with the low end and went to a 43T rear. Then I got the carbs sorted and worked on my riding technique and the low speed issues went away and I went back to stock gearing.
It was actually more to lengthen the wheel base to get more weight on the front wheel (more of that math stuff you don't believe in) but the bike actually performed better IMHO, though the lightened flywheel might have also played a part in this.

Sorry to go on a bit but like I stated at first, this is one of the "Mods" that has never made any sense to me.

[koko]

At the end of the day,having a motorcycle is a personable thing. So what people do to their own bike is up to them! And that's the appeal of owning and adding bits etc.