Bleedin' Brakes!

pmcq · Post by **pmcq** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:26 am

Right then, I've just fitted a set of braided hoses to the Storm - all very easy - went with the 2 straight hose setup - no T peice. I must have an airlock coz I could spend half the day pumping and no fluid comes out

I've checked this forum for some solutions - one of them is to hold the caliper above the master cylinder - do i just open the bleed valve and start pumping or just let the air make its way to the top. I have one of those 1 way-valve bleeding tubes but the fluid never makes it up to the one-way valve. I contemplated spending 75 quid on a vacuum kit but I'm sure this can be done without it - even if it takes a while. If I left the bleed valve open for a while, would the air eventually come out?

Any ideas?

Cheers!
pmcq

Stormin Ben · Post by **Stormin Ben** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:21 pm

Oh dear oh dear oh dear!!
I'm sure I've put this up a number of times

Anyway, HINDSIGHT MODE -see bottom of post

SOLUTIONS
Get a syringe and force fluid into the calipers. This should force the air upwards

OR

Raise the calipers straight up above the resevoir and pump. Again, the fluid is going in the same direction as the air wants to go. Use your one-way valve and pump away (ooh-err!)

OR

Tie the brake lever to the bar and leave it overnight. Any air in the system should be able to make its way up the hoses and out through the reservoir. The occasional tap on the hoses will help the bubbles move

HINDSIGHT mode

Before you remove the old hoses, remove the brake pads and carefully pump the pistons out til they contact the disk
You now have 2 calipers chock full of fluid

Then fit the new hoses and remove the resevoir lid

Now push all the pistons back into the caliper. This pushes fluid UP the hoses (ie in the same direction as the air bubbles want to go) and means that the brakes are firm straight away
Top up the resevoir as required and you're good to go

Hope this helps

Ben

rattler · Post by **rattler** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:15 pm

I can totally vouch for Ben's # 1 solution. Works a treat, took about 5 minutes.

pmcq · Post by **pmcq** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:30 am

Thanks guys!

Any ideas where I get a big syringe from ?

By pushing the fluid into the calipers does it just push the air out of will there be overflow... Sorry for the dumb questions - just want to make sure before I start!

Cheers
pmcq

Stormin Ben · Post by **Stormin Ben** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:20 pm

Vets are pretty good
Or try the local hospital pharmacy
BUT
in both cases make it crystal clear you DO NOT want the needle coz they're a bit funny about that sort of thing!!

Forcing fluid into the calipers should not cause it to leak from anywhere else (except the resevoir up the top)

Ben

tiggerii · Post by **tiggerii** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:04 am

I had a problem bleeding my brakes when I fitted the new hoses at first. Problem number one was that I was using one of those one man brake bleed hoses with a non return valve which was a pile of junk as the amount of air meant the valve wasn't getting properly triggered. Problem number 2 was that I was trying to do this by myself.

So I cut the end of the bleed pipe and went back to the old method of a pipe in a jar of brake fluid. I then invited my wife to help out and we went through the process of - open the bleed nipple, pull in brake lever and hold, close bleed nipple, let ot the lever and repeat many, many times.

I thought we we're never going to get the air out but we did and my brakes are now super sharp.

Good luck.

Sharpe1 · Post by **Sharpe1** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:57 pm

tiggerii wrote:I thought we we're never going to get the air out but we did and my brakes are now super sharpe.

Good luck.

Thanks

pmcq · Post by **pmcq** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:42 pm

OK, I've purchased a large syringe and am ready to try Ben's #1 option - forcing fluid back into the calipers - I tried the regular, open/pump/close/release for ages with an assistant last night but got nowhere.

Question: Do I need the brake lever pressed when I am plunging the syringe? If not - where does the air go?

These brakes will not get the better of me!!!!

Cheers
pmcq

Post by **kevg** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:01 pm

i'd guess yes, just tie wrap or bungee it. then you can gently push the fluid in through the bleed with the syringe. if you do it slowly enough you won't overfill it and risk a spillage.

yellafella · Post by **yellafella** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:24 pm

Emphasis on SLOWLY !

BarryH · Post by **BarryH** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:16 pm

I don't see why people have problems with this brake bleeding thing! Bled plenty of brakes in the past, including the front on the storm. Never had a prob.

If the lines are completely empty I just fill the master and pump with the nipple closed until I feel a bit of pressure. Hold the lever in and quickly loosen and tighten the nipple. The fluid is down in the caliper in 4 or 5 goes. Then its back to the usual bleed tube etc.

Never had to do any of this leaving overnight, caliper above cylinder contorsions!

Seeker 77 · Post by **Seeker 77** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:04 am

Me either mate! Took me half an hour to do mine with my new Tokico calipers. That said it took me about three days to do the Gixxer!! Maybe i had learnt my lessons by then!

pmcq · Post by **pmcq** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:14 pm

OK, this is really beginning to p*ss me off!!

Maybe I am going demented. Just as a test I removed the banjo bolt from the master cylinder - so all I have is a resevoir, a tube, and the master cylinder. Question: When I pump nothing comes out! Or should it... maybe I am ignorant of how hydraulic systems work!! I can see a bit of fluid moving about a bit inside the master cylinder but should fluid be pumped out? I then reassembled the new hoses again - tightened up all bolts and proceeded to do the regular pump 1, 2, 3, 4, hold, open bleed valve, close, release lever - No air is coming out the end of the tube submerged in brake fluid. What the heck am I doing wroing

Is my master cylinder in need of an overhaul!

I even bought one of those vacuum kits today - told by the guy in the shop - Ah yea thats perfect for what you want - only to find out I need a 90-120psi air supply!! Er... which I dont have.... Money back tomorrow.

I used to love playing with nipples but this is turning me right off!

I've got 2 bikes sitting in my shed off the road and its driving me insane!

BarryH · Post by **BarryH** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:02 pm

Hmm from what you say and the stage your at, I'd take the cylinder assembly off the bar and take the piston out to check the seals.

Iknow it may sound stupid, but other people have done it, you have got the cover off the resevoir when your pumping the lever?

You should actually get quite a "strong" short stream of fluid when pumping the lever. Was it ok before you removed the original lines?

pmcq · Post by **pmcq** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:42 pm

Hey Barry,

Yep the resevoir cap is off... My brakes were particularly bad - I let my mate drive it and he is used to 1 finger braking on his R1 - he said he nearly ended up in a ditch when he hit my brakes coz there was so much travel in the lever - I've only had the bike since may and reading posts on this forum on how crap the brakes are on a Storm, I figure that it was normal. I am wondfering now if they were spongy because they were not being topped up due to a blockage in the cylinder....hmmm

I think its time to diassemble the master cylinder
cheers!