Hi all

[Phil_H]

Ahh, right.
I'm then assuming that the bolt in the rear prevents the adjuster from, well, err, adjusting?!

If replacement springs are a no go, I don't fancy splashing out over £100 on a pair of new Honda adjusters, the stopper mod it is then

I rather foolishly had a fiddle at the rear adjuster the other day - it felt quite stiff & certainly not spring loaded but came good after working it in/out a few times.
The bike has done very few miles the last 5 years and I'm wondering if they can go sticky with standing?
By all accounts the front one is the most problematic...

Anyway,

Heres the crunch.....
I never even thought of cam position or jumping the cam timing when backed off, luckily, I didn't start the bike!
Next on the list is to make a locking key, get the rocker covers off and check everything properly whike doing the stopper mod.....



Cheers Phil

sent from my 'phone

[AMCQ46]

not a great idea to unwind the CCT without setting the engine to TDC [the correct one at compression], but as long as you didnt turn the screwdriver more that 2 or 3 turns you should have go away with it.

if you did turn it loads, then come back for more instructions, and dont turn the engine over

[Phil_H]

not a great idea to unwind the CCT without setting the engine to TDC [the correct one at compression], but as long as you didnt turn the screwdriver more that 2 or 3 turns you should have go away with it.

if you did turn it loads, then come back for more instructions, and dont turn the engine over

Hindsight is a wonderful thing....!

I wanted to check the plunger still had spring tension, you know the type of thing, you've only got 1/2hr and curiosity gets the better of you :/

As the cct felt a bit 'sticky' I wound the plunger back FULLY several times (darn silly I know!) Thankfully, the engine has not in any way turned since (been away).
When I get a mo, I'll make a cct locking key & gently wind the engine over by hand or is this unwise?

If I lose the tdc comp valve timing, how do know which is the correct tdc to set the cams too???

Oh dear....
I am (normally) quite a competent spannerer but I only have a little experience of taking cams out when a cct/chain are involved (either gear cam Hondas or bikes with screw tappets ;) )

Cheers guys

Phil



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[AMCQ46]

dont turn the engine over!

1st remove the tank, airbox and carbs. then get the rocker covers off both back and front cyl. even though you will only be working on the cams on the cyl with the CCT that you fiddled with, you need to see the other cyl so you can set the correct TDC.

then you want to remove the CCT to slacken the chain and unbolt the cams so all valves are closed.

then you will move the engine to TDC, on the "good cyl, the CCT instructions tell you which valve position it is for front and rear [pointing up and in, or pointing out and up depending on front or rear]. then it should be 1 1/4 turns of the crank from the rear TDC to the front TDC setting. I need to do some doodles to work out how many degrees you need to go from front TDC to be at the correct crank position for the rear TDC... but Chris or Carl or Tony will answer before I can .

once at teh rear TDC move your cams to the correct position, bolt down, refit CCT.


oh and dont drop the chain or any bolts down the cam chain tunnel

[VTRDark]

From front to rear IIRC I think it 270 degrees 3/4 turn. If your totally lost with the timing or feel some resistance ie valves touching piston. It's just as easy to loosen the cam caps so all the valves close and there is no resistance and start from the beginning.

Have read through the following guide for manual tensioners as it explains how to remove both cam covers (no rockers in these ) showing your age there and also goes into detailed timing.

Manual Cam Chain Tensioner Installation Guide (MCCT's)

(:-})

[Phil_H]

Cheers for the info & feedback.
I'll not make a move on it for a couple of days unfortunately - the battery is now disconnected lol.

Had a browse of the Haynes, front is 450* after the rear 1 1/4 turn.
The rear is 270* after the front.

2 x 360* = 720*
270* + 450* = 720*

Sounds about right!

I am interested how/why the vtr variant can wreck an engine with cct failure yet the xl variant seems to fare much better.
From my preliminary internet digging, the Vara does suffer from cct failure but engine damage does seem to be rare and there is nowhere near the info on the Vara sites.

Regards Phil

sent from my 'phone

[sirch345]

Yes, I agree it is 270 degrees you need to turn the engine over (ANTI-CLOCKWISE) when working on the front cylinder first when it comes to setting the valve timing.

Don't follow, I repeat, don't follow the Haynes manual for the valve timing as it's slightly misleading. Either follow Carls link which he has posted above ( Manual Cam Chain Tensioner Installation Guide (MCCT's) ) or mine here :- http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8326

You may be very lucky in the sense the cam chain was not under tension when you backed off the CCT with the screwdriver, if it turns out you were that lucky I should trying doing a lottery ticket this week
Either way, as AMcQ says, do not turn the engine over at all until you've checked the valve timing first. If the cam chain has jumped the cam sprockets and put the valve timing out, providing you've not tried to start the bike you should be okay once you have reset the valve timing.

I'm not sure about your question on the Varadero.
Basically if the valve timing goes out of sync, regardless of what bike or car engine you like to mention, unless the valves have clearance built into the piston crowns (as I believe some car engines have, I'm not sure about bikes) then the valves get smashed/bent by the piston if any of them are open at the time.

Chris.

[sirch345]

Ahh, right.
I'm then assuming that the bolt in the rear prevents the adjuster from, well, err, adjusting?!

Yes that is it. You are turning a self adjusting CCT into a manual CCT.

Chris.

[Flatline]

Welcome aboard buddy

[Phil_H]

Cheers guys.

Wind back key made, just awaiting a bit of spare time lol

sent from my 'phone

[Phil_H]

Right!

Covers off, plugs out & as I started to turn one of the rear cams jumped, turned over ok to tdc/c cams are out maybe 1t each checked valve clearances - all good ;)
Turned over to front cams, tdc, now with the ft mark perfectly aligned, the exh cam marks align with the head, the inlets are just below. If I move the chain around 1t the inlet cam marks are marginally high.
Spent ages jiggling backwards & forwards - which is best to go for?

I thought I'd start with the front cct stopper as that was untouched & thought it'd be simpler.
Are the cam marks not ligning just due to cam chain wear?
I guess so...

It's not a long way out but lack of a clear line of sight ain't helping either!

On the flip side, all clearances are good, the front cct feels good. I have adjusted the tps as suggested in these pages AND found the plug caps needed attention for which I'll start a new thread! ;)

Phil

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[VTRDark]

This is sounding messy. All because you played with the tensioner without setting the timing first

Are the cam marks not ligning just due to cam chain wear?
I guess so...

If less than a tooth then yes. As to which way to go, take your pick. Advance or retard.

Covers off, plugs out & as I started to turn one of the rear cams jumped, turned over ok to tdc/c cams are out maybe 1t each checked valve clearances - all good ;)
Turned over to front cams

I'm a bit confused here. Are you saying the cams jumped so you have left it and moved on to the front cylinder instead.

I thought I'd start with the front cct stopper as that was untouched & thought it'd be simpler.

Make sure once you are on the compression stoke that you turn the locking key either a 1/4 or 1/2 turn. Sorry I can't remember which cylinder is which there without looking up Sirches thread. Also tape the key in place so it don't fall out when removing the tensioner. Which direction are the cam lobes pointing while at FT on the crank.

(:-})

[Phil_H]

Hi, sorry can't seem to split quotes on the phone...

Yes, the cam/chain jumped as I turned the motor over but no contact or resistance so continued to tdc-comp, saw they were only 1 or two teeth out & clearances are in spec so moved onto the front pot clearances/cct as the lhs of the bike was accessible - to get access to the rhs cct, a few bikes & crap will need moving round ;)

I don't fully understand why one cct needs winding back more than the other???
From what I can see, once the tensioner has moved out, it won't go back in (unless the spring is fecked?!).
Surely the cct tensions the chain at its slackest point & doesn't return at all.
I've read the guide several times but don't understand why the extra clearance on the fr cct...?

Phil

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[Phil_H]

All sorted, funnily the rear cam marks lined up closer to perfect than the fronts which were both ~1/2t out.

The rear pot inlets had jumped 1t with me buggering about.

Ccts & stoppers now sorted.

Cheers for the input

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[AMCQ46]

ok, good work............is it started now?