Camshaft change

[chris freckle]

Thanks for the offer but I already have a z1000, 2007 mille, 2004 R1 + my storm to do at the moment, so a bit short on time. Do you know who built the 150 bhp storm engine, sounds great!

[lloydie]

Yep Rodger Dutchfield at revaluation racing

[Kev L]

Yep Rodger Dutchfield at revaluation racing

Ah the well known Rodger in a Dutch field who revalued his racing! You could also look toward Roger Ditchfield from Revolution Racing, a member of this very forum.
You do make me laugh when you get over excited on the keyboard Lloydie

[lloydie]

Sorry I'm tucking into a bottle of disarauno !! How ever it's spelt and my fingers are a little tired from having ck round for the day (he's hard work you know ) and this auto correct too .

I was watching a David Attenborough wildlife program on telly last night called Natural Curiosities: naked mole rats

http://www.theguardian.com/natural-curi ... -mole-rats
And I don't know why but I did think of someone !!

[Varastorm]

Hi, everyone, first post on here!

I have a Varadero which I am constantly playing with & have modified it to suit my needs.

I am a believer that it's good to share knowlage good or bad & have covered most of the mods I have done on the bike on the XRV.org forum under Varadero & the name firedero.

So far I have not opened the engine to tinker but have been looking into cam swaps! Talk about difficult information to get your hands on!!

After reading a section, see here.

http://www.superhawkforum.com/forums/ge ... pecs-8061/

I was wondering if there is any truth to this? As Rollingalong seems to know his stuff! Save me going down the road of buying old 1997 cams to measure them up myself?

I know there is quite a lot of differences between the VTR & the Varadero engines, double valve springs, higher revlimit, lighter flywheel etc. But you have to start somewhere......

I also got this info from the http://www.megacyclecams.com/ site.

Is there some truth to it? Notice the stock exhaust cam reference.

HONDA VTR-1000 (1998—1999)

Hardfaced cams set of 4 on customer cores.

CAM VALVE DURATION LOBE INTAKE OPEN/CLOSE RUNNING NUMBER LIFT AT .040" CENTERS DESCRIPTION AND APPLICATION EXHAUST OPEN/CLOSE CLEARANCE

102-x1 in .443" 257° ° Road race profile. Must use racing pistons & btc/ abc ."
102-x1 ex .443" 257° ° valve springs bbc/ atc ."
102-x2 in .450" 280° ° Race profile - modified pistons and springs. btc/ abc ."
102-x3 ex .435" 272° ° Race profile - modified pistons and springs. bbc/ atc ."

Stock cams
intake .400" 249° For reference
exhaust .435" 272° For reference

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Regards.

[Roger Ditchfield]

The OEM Standard VTR Firestorm "out of the box" makes 102bhp @ R/wheel
The OEM Standard VTR SP1 "out of the box" makes 122bhp @ R/wheel
The OEM Standard VTR SP2 "out of the box" makes 126bhp @ R/wheel

[Varastorm]

Hi Roger,

I have read many VTR tuning threads and your name pops up more than anyone (GURU!), many thanks for all the useful & priceless info you have shared on the forum.

I am looking into the rumour that the early 97-98 VTR had a higher lift exhaust cam than the later models!

Have you heard of any information about the early exhaust camshaft having a higher lift?

I will try to find out even if I have to purchase old (from Ebay!) exhaust cams from 97> & measure them up

I will post the results when I get them. It might take a while but I will get to the bottom of this little riddle!

Regards.

[Jscobey]

to my knowledge all the cams on all model firestorms from all years are the same. i do know that they are different however from the vara cams.

[8541Hawk]

Hi Roger,

I have read many VTR tuning threads and your name pops up more than anyone (GURU!), many thanks for all the useful & priceless info you have shared on the forum.

I am looking into the rumour that the early 97-98 VTR had a higher lift exhaust cam than the later models!

Have you heard of any information about the early exhaust camshaft having a higher lift?

I will try to find out even if I have to purchase old (from Ebay!) exhaust cams from 97> & measure them up

I will post the results when I get them. It might take a while but I will get to the bottom of this little riddle!

Regards.

The reason why this came about is that the first 2 production years (in the US which would technically be 3 years everywhere else) made 5 more BHP per the published dyno runs.
The HP and torque peaks also dropped by 500 rpm at that time.
Usually when you have a drop in BHP and the power peaks drop in RPM you would think cam change and as the rest of the bits in the head stayed the same it was a way to possibly determine why the later bikes made less HP.

Now I did have one person measure a set of cams and by them the earlier set had more lift and duration. I can't confirm, as I wasn't there but I do consider them a reliable source.
I didn't take things any farther as I already have a '98 (or '97 over there)

[Roger Ditchfield]

The VTR Firestorm/Superhawk OEM camshaft profiles have always been the same dimensions within working tolerances since day one.

[Varastorm]

Hi, Has anyone any specific details on the VTR camshafts & the Varadero?

Duration Inl & Exh,
Valve lift Inl & Exh,
Timing,
Full lift Inl ATDC & Exh BTDC,
Lift @ TDC with clearence Inl & Exh.

Just thinking one was used for top end & one for torque!

If the information was out there there might be a combination of camshafts to suit peoples needs like a VTR exhaust camshaft as the VTR inlet & the Varadero inlet as the Exhaust on the VTR...........

I know that the timing wheels would have to be looked at by a machine shop, but its an idea.

Regards.

[tony.mon]

Here you go:

KENT:
IN::BTDC 22/ABDC 54/10.36/106 (256 deg. duration)
EX::BBDC 60/ATDC 28/10.56/
106 (268 deg. duration)


MORIWAKI:
IN::BTDC 22/ABDC 53/10.3/105.5 (255 deg. duration)
Ex::BBDC 53/ATDC 16/10.1/108.5 (249 deg. duration)

YOSHIMURA:
IN::BTDC 17/ABDC 53/10.7/108 (250 deg duration)
EX::BBDC 55/ATDC 15/10.7/110 (250 deg. duration)

Stock
IN::20/45/?/102.5 (245 deg. duration)
EX::50/15/?/107.5 (245 deg. duration)

From RollingAlong's post in Superhawk forum:
IN::?/?/10.16/? (249 deg. duration measured)
EX::/?/?/11.0/ (272 deg. duration (measured)

http://www.superhawkforum.com/forums/sh ... php?t=6634

[Varastorm]

Hi, Thanks for the update's guys.

After reading up some more Varadero specs, there seems to be engine version changes (not too sure when the change was) that used the VTR heads!

Now that hot after market bits are getting close to impossible to find or affordable if found!

Has anyone measured up any Varadero cams? just to see if there is anything to be had?

Or even if the Varadero timing gears are a better/accurate when looking to dial in the cams to your liking?

For instance, when I read up about people putting four VTR exhaust cams in! Instead of machining, slotting the cam gears the Varadero timing gears might be a easy fix?

These are just ideas & I like exploring all avenue's when you think there are no more places to look! You never know!

Who would of thought that the exhaust cams are the (hotter) of the cams in the VTR? Not by much, but a little & every little helps, my Mum used to say!

At the moment I am looking into fitting VTR cams into the Varadero, but changing the valve timing to suit the Varadero's lower rev limit so that peak power is reached a little earlier rather than on, or beyond the rev limiter. Well, that's my plan!

Things I will need to look into are the Varadero's valve springs, are they made of thicker wire because they are singular? Which might cause spring binding? Not sure if STD Varadero cams have a higher lift or longer/shorter duration because there is no information out there, it looks as if no one has looked either (poor ole Varadero & me!).

Any help, advice appreciated.

BTW, has anyone looked into fitting a rear cylinder head on the front? As there seems to be a shortage of front heads!
I know the cam tensioners are on the wrong side, just a thought if you could machine it to work?

Regards.

[Varastorm]

Hi,

Right then, I have been looking & asking about the differences of the VTR & Varadero camshafts, because it looks like these are the only camshafts available to play with, unless you get lucky & find some hot ones or have lots of money to make some.

Whilst reading the valve timing specifications in the Haynes book (I forget how good these books are) I read:-

VTR models
inlet valve opens ................... 20° BTDC inlet duration ........ 245°
inlet valve closes ................... 45° ABDC
exhaust valve opens ............... 50° BBDC exhaust duration ..... 245°
exhaust valve closes ............... 15° ATDC

Varadero models
inlet valve opens ................... 15° BTDC inlet duration ......... 225°
inlet valve closes ................... 30° ABDC
exhaust valve opens ............... 40° BBDC
exhaust valve closes ............... 5° ATDC exhaust duration ...... 225°

It states that the:-
inlet lobe height is ................. 40.080 to 40.240 mm
exhaust lobe height ................ 40.230 to 40.390 mm

It only states one cam lobe size so I take it that both bikes share the same cam lift. That means there are no worries of valve spring bind if you fit the VTR cams in a Varadero head! Also because there in no easy way of increasing the rev limit, the Varadero single valve springs are not a problem either!

Here is my next problem, the VTR red line is 9500 rpm & the Varadero red line is 8750 rpm. I am not going to even attempt a (scotch lock horror) loom splice so I can access the VTR's rev limit of 9500 rpm by fitting a VTR cdi/ecu.

So my thinking is, to get around this rev limit problem is to advance the VTR cams in a Varadero engine by around one tooth (5°- 6°) ??????

I am not sure that you will get away with this with out hitting a piston though?

Whilst looking up ideas, I came across this ( http://www.hottr6.com/triumph/CamBasics.html ), I know its about a triumph TR6 but is has similarities, performance, round about power and 20° differences in camshaft duration examples, also about moving the power profile via cam timing 5°- 6°(500 rpm).

Any feedback would be great, as this is only guess work at the moment.

Regards.

[Wicky]

Can't you just get hold of a VTR engine and ancillaries and transplant that over into the Varadero…

IIRC A Greek member did that with his Varadero in the hunt for extra oomph.