Airbox, CCT Stopper and Valve clearances

[sirch345]

Thanks Chris, I have been taking pics as I go. Especially of all the myriad of hoses and stuff. Good tip though on the stuff you mentioned. I can see how those panels fitting together properly could be a problem.

Well done with the photo's I didn't do that the first time I removed that panel etc, it would have saved me sometime if I had

I'm glad to see you have put some clean rags in the open carbs

As Lloydie says and what I normally do, leave the inlet rubbers attached to the cylinder heads,

Chris.

[VTRDark]

I agree on everything said, though I usually disconnect the throttle cables, choke at the frame, and TPS before lifting the carbs. Then pop the carbs off the rubber boots, then disconnect the carb coolant hoses from underneath (no need to drain cooling system) , slide the rest of the choke cable through and off they come as one complete unit. You also have the PAIR (bullshit pain in the butt) emissions to deal with connected to the carb and IIRC one line attached under the airbox..

PAIR emissions system is something worth considering removing but maybe not right now until your more prepared and used to working on the bike. Saying that though, as you have the carbs off and are in there, maybe now is a good time. FYI The earlier modal VTR did not come with PAIRS emission system at all.
PAIRS Removal

When you put things back together pull the smaller hoses that run through the carb brackets between the two carbs, out slightly so there is not so much of a tight right angled bend on them running through the bracket.
carb breather fix....question......

[Chris you have a missing/broken linked image in the above thread]

(:-})

[sirch345]

How come that bolt I've marked with a red arrow is sticking out like that perhaps I'm missing something

Chris.

[VTRDark]

Maybe something to do with the following. Well spotted I missed that in the pic

BTW when I removed the lower part of the airbox I found that one of the studs/spacers that holds the two plates together that support the carbs was loose. Well more than loose, one nut had come off and was being held in between a couple of hoses. It's all tightened up now.

http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php ... 00#p350257

(:-})

[sirch345]

Cheers Carl I did read that post, but dismissed it as he said at the end of that paragraph "It's all tightened up now". Perhaps there's a longer bolt there, I was wondering if something was attached to it that thunderbolt had removed. It's not something I can remember seeing,

Chris.

[VTRDark]

It's not something I can remember seeing,

Your right it not meant to be like that and IIRC does not have anything attached to it. It should be the same as the others flush against the plate.

Seeing that emissions pipe running through the plastic cowl just reminded me what a pain in the butt it is to do this with PAIRS. All those extra bits to disconnect.

Lovin the notes "to fuel tap" Thunderbolt did you disconnect the petcock diaphragm (tap) fuel lines and then remove the petcock along with the tank via the 8mm bracket bolt on the frame.

(:-})

[thunderbolt]

It's not something I can remember seeing,

Your right it not meant to be like that and IIRC does not have anything attached to it. It should be the same as the others flush against the plate.

Seeing that emissions pipe running through the plastic cowl just reminded me what a pain in the butt it is to do this with PAIRS. All those extra bits to disconnect.

Lovin the notes "to fuel tap" Thunderbolt did you disconnect the petcock diaphragm (tap) fuel lines and then remove the petcock along with the tank via the 8mm bracket bolt on the frame.

(:-})

Carl, With my VTR being an "03 model I did remove the fuel rock with the tank and left the hoses still attached to the carbs, etc.

Chris, when I removed the air box with the help of members on this forum I found that bolt as you see it in the picture I attached. I have since tightened it up. Although I might undo it again and use loctite on all the nuts to make sure they stay in place in the future.

In the picture below you can see the nut that came undone from the stud being held in place by a rubber hose (circled in red). Very lucky indeed. Glad I decided to do the stopper mod.

[thunderbolt]

Lovin the notes "to fuel tap"
(:-})

Carl, more notes for you. Glad you were amused by them. Warms the cockles of my heart.



Friends say I am paranoid and a perfectionist when it comes to my bikes and especially my motors. I research to the endth degree. That wouldn't have anything to do with the fact I count the number of threads on the throttle cable adjustment where it attaches to the carbs when taking them off would it.






BTW (being paranoid) which nut is it best to back off to remove the cables from the carb attachment? The one nearest where the cable attaches to the throttle shaft or the other one? I also notice that the return cable does not have any adjustment, is this normal?

Thanks

[thunderbolt]

Just a quick one.

Will I need to replace the rocker cover gasket with a new one when I remove the rocker covers from the motor?

Thanks

[Wicky]

No - just some small dabs of silicone to hold it correctly in place.

Just be careful torquing up the bolts holding the cam covers as its easy to over tighten them and snap 'em.

[thunderbolt]

Thanks Wicky, I will be careful. I always use a torque wrench when tightening anything up on my bikes. I have an inch/lbs wrench I use for the small bolts.

To All; this is the stage I am up to at the present time and just asking for confirmation before I remove the front CCT. Thanks.

I've removed the carbs and the front plastic cowling that sits over the front cylinder head. I did not remove the rocker cover at this stage. I turned the motor over anti-clockwise until I observed the intake valves opening and then closing. I continued to rotate the motor while observing the timing marks through the small aperture. First the rear cylinder timing marks went past the window, then the front F (firing) mark and then I lined the FT mark up with the index mark (in the picture it looks like it is not lined up perfectly, but that is because of the angle of the camera). I then made the CCT key to fit the front CCT and it worked ok with a few adjustments with a file. On the front CCT it stays in place ok within being taped in position at this stage.

So am I ok to now remove the front CCT? Do I have the motor in the correct position -- TDC on the compression stroke for the front cylinder?






Any other points of confirmation or suggestions would be appreciated? Thanks

When I have removed the CCT where do I take the measurements from to be able to make up the stopper rod/bar (8mm) to the correct length?

Thanks

[Wicky]

When I have removed the CCT where do I take the measurements from to be able to make up the stopper rod/bar (8mm) to the correct length?

See measurement A in the pic in the first post The Workshop Knowledgebase thread > CCT (Cam Chain Tensioner) Fail Safe Mod. (aka Stopper Mod)

http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 31&t=19416

As for the the timing marks have you removed the rear cam cover and confirmed the position of the cams are correct. Reread the CCT installation post in the Workshop Knowledgebase with pics if unsure > http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 31&t=28583. Begin with rear first before moving on to the front one after resetting the timing as appropriate.

[thunderbolt]

When I have removed the CCT where do I take the measurements from to be able to make up the stopper rod/bar (8mm) to the correct length?

See measurement A in the pic in the first post The Workshop Knowledgebase thread > CCT (Cam Chain Tensioner) Fail Safe Mod. (aka Stopper Mod)

http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 31&t=19416

As for the the timing marks have you removed the rear cam cover and confirmed the position of the cams are correct. Reread the CCT installation post in the Workshop Knowledgebase with pics if unsure > http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 31&t=28583. Begin with rear first before moving on to the front one after resetting the timing as appropriate.

Wicky, I am doing the front cylinder first, the reason being so I can see how the CCT key works in the CCT. Very difficult to see how it operates in the rear one (in bad position). Now I know how it works I could move to the rear and do it first. I found TDC on compression for the front by watching the intake valves open and then close and then wound the motor on anti-clockwise till the FT mark lined up. Is that ok or is it essential to remove both valve covers to find TDC?

Thanks for your quick response. Excellent.

[VTRDark]

BTW (being paranoid) which nut is it best to back off to remove the cables from the carb attachment?

the one on the wire cable side is best.

I also notice that the return cable does not have any adjustment, is this normal?

Yes perfectly normal. Handy as well, because it means one can visually see a difference between the two, so not mix them up when re-attaching. The bottom inner nut (wire side) is awkward to get to especially if the top cable is already in place. I find all you need to do is rest a finger against it and loosen the other longer end a bit. Then use your fingers to spin it around which loosens the smaller nut off more.

hanks Wicky, I will be careful. I always use a torque wrench when tightening anything up on my bikes. I have an inch/lbs wrench I use for the small bolts.

That's exactly where things can go wrong, especially n smaller weaker bolts. Most people don't account for a bolt that has stretched from being removed so many times and/or been overtightened in the past. Cam cover bolts it's just a case of nipping them up. It's only a 10mm spanner so go easy, no need for a torque wrench with masses of leverage. Don't forget the rubber seal that sit under the bolts and make sure you get them the right way up.

So am I ok to now remove the front CCT? Do I have the motor in the correct position -- TDC on the compression stroke for the front cylinder?

Crank is OK. If you verify that the front cam lobes are pointing up and outwards then your on the compression stroke so good to go. NOTE If your starting from the front then it wont be 450 degrees 1 1/4 turn to reach compression on the rear but 270 degrees 3/4 turn. Verify this with the the cam lobes once again which on the front will be pointing upwards and inwards. You also have the horizontal line markings, RI and RE on the cam sprockets themselves.

Using the valves as a guide (valve guide ) can be done but is not the most accurate way of doing things. Both valves closed will overlap onto the power stroke. If you want to see the exact point as to when and where the valves open, close and overlap then see the diagram roughly a 1/6th of the way down the page in the following.
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 31&t=33343

(:-})

[thunderbolt]

Carl, thanks for your detailed reply.

If I observed the intake valves opening and then closing through the intake port and then continued to rotate the crabk until the FT timing mark appeared in the window, would that not mean the motor is at TDC on the compression stroke? The FT timing mark does mean the motor is at TDC on that cylinder doesn't it - I do understand that FT mark appears twice in a complete four stroke cycle of the motor'.

Even though I have asked these questions I think I will remove the front cylinder valve cover to make doubly sure the crank and cams are in the correct position before removing the CCT.

Thanks for your other answers to my questions as well Carl, on the throttle cable situation and the torque wrench issue as well.