buggered starter and tight manual ccts

[kenmoore]

Don't go back to OEM mate,

They are a grenade waiting to happen.

I run my chains at 7 mm and even though rattles abound I have done 25000Klms and flog the baldrocks of it.

Do the starter cable before you make a decision.

It is so rattley that people say how's your Ducati go.

I now try not to explain it's a Honda and just say good thanks!

Revisit your adjusters as per the knowledge base mate and enjoy your bike.

Just my two bobs worth as we say in OZ!

[Geordie]

Thanks folks .. yes everytime I out on the vtr it gets a good workout .. in fact ive done more miles round knockhill than one the road the last couple of years. I have had the manuals in for over six years and over 7000 miles with no probs other than this starting issue but I think as its a bit of a bodge mod ill get the bike apart and have a check. So four mm is too tight and 8 mm too slack between the two camshaft sprockets ? ..
Just another point with tight chains .. they will cause excessive wear to the chain guides until a balance id reached possibly . .
With my engineering head on I like things to be as precise as can be and this whole thing is a tad creative for my nonse .. lol
Cheers guys
They are bloody fun bikes :-)

[kenmoore]

7mm, enjoy the rattles and flog the ass off it mate!

Loud pipes also help as you can't hear the rattles on the move!

Good luck!

[Stratman]

Fitted MCCTs in 2004. Adjusted them once only. No problems with them at all and can now happily slam the throttle shut without wondering if the front one will go pop.

[agentpineapple]

I had a starter motor fail on my bike and at the time it had auto cct's on, imho it's nothing to do with your cct's, just a shagged starter or as tony said, the cable is fubar'd.
sort the cable and starter motor before worrying about the cct's fella.

[tony.mon]

Just another point with tight chains .. they will cause excessive wear to the chain guides until a balance id reached possibly . .
With my engineering head on I like things to be as precise as can be and this whole thing is a tad creative for my nonse .. lol
Cheers guys
They are bloody fun bikes :-)

That's not the problem, although i see what you mean.
But rollers on plastic running in oil won't wear at all.
The side plates wear grooves in until the rollers roll on the centre track, as it were.

The main problem is the plain journal where the cam is drawn down into the head- if it's tight enough that the oil film breaks down between the cam and the lower half of the journal and heat occurs, metal to metal pickup and the cam then becomes a rotating file cutting into the head.
It's not really rebuildable after that.....

[mattster]

George - I've a spare starter in stock, give me a bell if you want it dropped off next time I'm down that way.

Blackbird starters are also straight swaps!

[Geordie]

Hello Matt hows it going ? Aye might take you up on that actually, give us a shout if you're down in Prestwick over the weekend.
Turns out my starter is not turning over as smoothly as it should, and the terminal bolt is corroded away along with all the insulating washers, hence short circuits and poor starting, so cable repaired with a new connector and either another starter or repair mine it should be much improved.
Took the liberty of a moderate strip down while i'm at it, always a dangerous thing !.. both rocker covers off and top cam chain guides off and measured the deflection on the chain between the two cam sprockets .. front is tight at max deflection up to max deflection down is about 7mm the rear slacker at nearly a cm. Is this the correct measurements ? ie fully push the chain down and fully pull it up, the max distance of travel or are you guys saying it should be from level or relaxed state to max deflection from there to fully down or fully up, ie half the distance. This is quite important as it makes a huge difference .. !! a turn of the cct manual bolt three flats makes a noticable difference in tension. Id say the chains are fine if the total deflection up to down between the sprockets is about one cm its still quite tight at that and i cant see how it could jump a cog tooth ..
Also measured all the valve clearances and they are all at the tight end of the range but ok everything looks and feels fine.
I'm still thinking on going back to the autos though with the stopper mod, just seems to be more along the lines of how the motor is designed to work.
IM just searching for the fitting guides to check everything over. Is it Sirch's fitting guide thats best ?
cheers folks

[VTRDark]

front is tight at max deflection up to max deflection down is about 7mm the rear slacker at nearly a cm. Is this the correct

7mm is near a Cm but not that near as 3 are missing.

Geordie have look at the video's furthur down in the following thread bearing in mind my measurements are little off but they do show where to take the measurement from.

Manual Cam Chain Tensioner Installation Guide (MCCT's)

(:-})

[Geordie]

Yeah found that there dont remember seeing that before very thorough write up .. yes I see its full movement that the measurement relates to .. im going to slacken the front cylinder three flats and the back by two on the mccts and see how it fairs .. should be fine ..
Actually toying with fancy cams now ive got the thing in bits !! .. also tackling the front exhaust downpipe clamp etc .. queue drilling out sheared studs !

[mattster]

Sorry - only just checked back into this thread today. I'll be down on Thursday evening - will drop it off to you then.

[Geordie]

Cheers Matt made one complete starter out of the two ! Insulators were a bit cracked on mine and the terminal bolt non existent. All back together and with my rear mcct backed off three flats and front five flats with both chain deflections at seven mm maybe as much as nine if you really push it .. starter turned the motor over so much more freely than I ever remember actually. Started very easily runs fine no rattles that I can detect at all ..
So just to get either front downpipe replaced on original exhsust or go for a new shiny bling system of better quality than hondas ..
Getting a rolling road test done soon to benchmark my current setup which as far as ive ever known is standard apart from mig concepts with removeable baffles. Did have it dynoed at ype power in bonnyrigg in 2009 I think at 108 .. which I was surprised at tbh .. quite fancy doing some performance mods like a lot on here. Want a bit more at the top end and a smooth delivery right through .. ive bedn reading about tps, stick coils, longer trumpets, then factory pro larger jets needles etc ... whats the general up to date advice ?? .. no crazy big airbox mods though .. !!
Cheers George

[VTRDark]

Good news that you making progress

My advice to you on the mods/performance upgrades is to get the bike running great as it is and take small steps in changing things. Monitor how it changes the bike and if it's in the direction you want to go in, and all the time learning. I wouldn't go jumping straight into the deep end and changing cams or anything like that. What you need to remember is that everything/every part works as a team. If you go changing one thing it starts off a chain reaction, cause and affect. You can't have perfect everywhere, you will either have good torque on top but not so good lower down or good low down torque but not so good on top or maybe settle for an average across the board which is pretty much what standard is. Everything is a sacrifice.

Is average a bad thing? not really as this also give better reliability, smoother running and longevity. The other thing to remember is that performance engines are not as reliable. They can be twitchy and you will find yourself constantly tinkering Carb work is a good place to start because lots of things will have you playing with jetting. By the way Factory pro mains are exactly the same design and measurement scale as Keihin (standard) whereas for example Dynojet have their own scale and design, totally different.

Some reading material for you
Carb Tuning guide (setting up a Dynojet or Factory Pro kit)

(:-})

[mattster]

Cheers Matt made one complete starter out of the two ! .. starter turned the motor over so much more freely than I ever remember actually. Started very easily runs fine no rattles that I can detect at all ..

Excellent - glad to hear it! Now that you've checked it all over and built it all back up again, you know the engine is in good shape, so just concentrate on riding the thing! (pot/kettle I know... 800 miles for me this year )

So just to get either front downpipe replaced on original exhsust or go for a new shiny bling system of better quality than hondas ..

Just get that guy down the road to replace the front downpipe - save the pennies for when someone on here is looking to offload a full racing setup

Getting a rolling road test done soon

Book me in!!!!!! I've been meaning to get along to Dynotech for a while now. Not holding out much hope for beating your 108 from 2009... that seems like a pretty healthy figure to me...

[AMCQ46]

Gordie,

for a half decent set up you want to try the following:
1) std down pipes and good race cans with a tapering link pipe, but take the big ring of weld out of the top of the headers where they mount to the cyl heads.
2) DR Honda inlet stacks [or copy Varastorms mod where he fitted Ducati trumpets to the std plastic Honda ones]
3) stick Coils
4) lightened flywheel.
5) copy the Hawk jetting instructions and also get it dyno'd to fine tune it
6) quick action throttle with the return cable removed


with that lot done the bike will feel very lively