As you know I bought a motorcycle recently, the motorcycle turned out to be a cat C, he agreed to pay my in January and Feb the difference, I kind of knew this was going to happen but hes started to ignore texts and E mail, or at least I think he is.
When I bought the bike I asked him about the status of the bike and he said as far as he know it was fine, as I pointed out to him we had a gentlemen's agreement.
He only live 32 miles from me so riding to his house with some people from my club isn't going to be an issue, however before it gets to that stage what would you advise?
I know he's been on line for certain reasons, so its not like he's not about.
I also promised to send him some feeler gauges I was going to post them on signed for mail, just to see who signs for it.
Like I said I want to avoid it getting to a stage where I have to go to his house, for obvious reasons.
What would you do.
beating him to death comments are helpful but funny.
Do a bit of checking see has he sold any more bikes or cars, Is he a trade seller pretending to be a private seller, if he is a trade seller your case is a lot stronger, Speak to trading standards in your area and see if they have had any previous complaints about him, Trading standards will also tell you if he has to tell you it is a cat c at point of sale and if he does have to tell you then you could go small claims court
Unfortunately it's a buyers beware market and your responsibility to check these things out before purchasing so legally I don't think there's much you can do. A show of force without using any force may push him into being a gentleman and doing the right thing. I find 9 times out of 10 these kind of people are little slimy worms when it comes down to it and will soon do the right thing once they realise they don't have the upper-hand. The other option is to keep pestering them until they get bored, phone calls, email etc, nag him like a woman and hopefully he'll give in a cough up just to get rid of you.
Wicky I have had a lot of trouble using paypal and stuff lately which I wont go to much into so I was unable to HPI the bike at the time, I did ask him if the bike was ok HPI wise and he said as far as he knew it was clear.
The problem as I said is I can go down to his house with a few big lads, but I want to explore other revenues first.
Value wise I am quite a bit out of pocket, but I was willing to settle with him with £500.
Basically means 'buyer beware' and it applies to this for sure.
It was your responsibility to check the bike before you bought it. You can't now ask for a refund or compensation. You should have checked it. Regardless of whether he knew it was a Cat C or not. I think the only exception to this is if he has guaranteed that it isn't a write off to you in writing.
If he's willing to pay some money, then fine. If he's not, there's nothing really you can do.
Getting some blokes to go round and intimidate him isn't the best idea IMO. Firstly you have no idea whether he will retaliate, second, you could be liable for criminal prosecution and third, the blokes you get to go round could be liable for criminal prosecution. Are they really going to be willing to risk all that for £500 for you?
No offence, but it sounds quite weak sending others round to do your dirty work. You're in the wrong here in the eyes of the law, not him, though his morals may be questionable.
I bought my GSXR this year knowing it was a write off and it's been fine. I have done a load of miles on it and a couple of track days, other than a bit of paper to say it's a write off, no one would know. Since you bought your bike without checking, I suppose it's probably otherwise in good condition.
Technically, you aren't out of pocket, since you haven't actually sold it and you're talking in terms of a hypothetical value. If you were to list it for sale on an e-bay auction, leaving your buyer to do their own checks, you would find many people don't and you would probably get what you paid for it anyway.
If you're planning on keeping the bike for a few years and getting the use out of it, then how can you be sure of its value further down the line?
The problem is he told me the bike was clear, so for me to find out that the bike isn't is a big insult to me personally. Secondly I would go myself with a few people, and were not talking to drag him out of his his and beat him death, but just to give him a reminder on the promise he made me to do the right thing as he put it.
To give someone a bike worth £1850 and give someone a bike worth £300-£500 is diabolical, its not just about the money, I realise that legally I have no recourse but its not something I would do to someone and finding it insulting and damn right rude, if he gets away with it once and all that.
I sold a bike a few year ago the buyer came back to about 3 weeks after buying to say it had come back as cat d and wasn't happy that I hadn't told him and threatened me with court action.
I honestly had no idea it was an insurance loss as i had the hpi report from the dealer I bought the bike from and it said it was clear
I spoke to dvla and they informed me that as the seller it was 100% my responsibility to tell the buyer of its history and the fact I didn't know was no excuse
The happy ending for mine was the Richard head buyer had seen the taxation category on the log book which was Category d the bike was 100% hpi clear
Also now why I always history check every vehicle I buy I use a mobile text service now cost about £3
That said I've just seen this on the rac website
I presume the same applies to bikes
Traders have to declare if a car has been written off as part of a sale, but private individuals do not. To help make sure you don’t get caught out paying over the odds, an HPI vehicle check will unearth if a car has been written off and into what category it was placed – and can be done for just a few pounds.
Fingers crossed he gives u a bit of £££ back but I guess he's not obliged too
Gazfirestormowner wrote:I sold a bike a few year ago the buyer came back to about 3 weeks after buying to say it had come back as cat d and wasn't happy that I hadn't told him and threatened me with court action.
I honestly had no idea it was an insurance loss as i had the hpi report from the dealer I bought the bike from and it said it was clear
I spoke to dvla and they informed me that as the seller it was 100% my responsibility to tell the buyer of its history and the fact I didn't know was no excuse
The happy ending for mine was the Richard head buyer had seen the taxation category on the log book which was Category d the bike was 100% hpi clear
Also now why I always history check every vehicle I buy I use a mobile text service now cost about £3
You see this is the thing, I haven't been nasty to the bloke, I have explained to him that I have had problems getting a HPI report on the bike due to stuff that I am not going into, the problem with those text ones is that not all of them give you the critical info, I did look into them, so I asked him if the bike was legally his to sell and did he know of any reasons ( in regards to HPI ) what should be a concern, he told me he was sure the bike was fine, I asked him about the engine and said was that ok, he said its fine.
When I spoke to him about the Cat C he said that he wouldn't be happy and asked what I suggest, I said reverse the deal or just give me something towards the loss, I told him because of the circumstances I wouldn't expect him to give me anymore than £500 ( the difference was a lot more ).
So its not like we done the deal and then hes ignored me, but he discussed agreed and now silence
EDIT : he just told me his on holiday, so panic over.
Cat C is normally on the V5 reg document on the front page left hand side near the bottom. I think the bloke that sold you the bike knew it was cat c because of his answer when you asked the question ( As far as I am aware it is hpi clear) that answer would have just set alarm bells off with me, he was just being as vague as he could and not answering the question, I would just go to his home alone and be nice and appeal to his good nature and I would go 3 or 4 times until he paid or told me to go away, I know your stinging but you was quite happy with the bike and probably still are apart from it being cat c. Going round knocking fook out the fella will probably only make things worse and really won`t make you feel any better
carmanbikes wrote:Cat C is normally on the V5 reg document on the front page left hand side near the bottom. I think the bloke that sold you the bike knew it was cat c because of his answer when you asked the question ( As far as I am aware it is hpi clear) that answer would have just set alarm bells off with me, he was just being as vague as he could and not answering the question, I would just go to his home alone and be nice and appeal to his good nature and I would go 3 or 4 times until he paid or told me to go away, I know your stinging but you was quite happy with the bike and probably still are apart from it being cat c. Going round knocking fook out the fella will probably only make things worse and really won`t make you feel any better
That was the plan, it was going to be my club was passing through and I thought I would say hello as I was popping past kind of visit .
But he contact me telling me his on holiday so I guess hes going to honour it.
Just looked at the document and it doesnt state that its a CAT C anywhere, the only way I found out was when I finally was able to HPi it, there was nothing on the document he gave me, I'm giving the fella as much of the benefit of doubt as I can so until he does welch on ' making things right ' then I' m not going to be an ass to him.
Even when he has paid up, he has still greatly gained from the deal, be honest in some ways the CAT c just gives me the excuse to streefighter ( maybe ) sometime in the future.
Gazfirestormowner wrote:That said I've just seen this on the rac website
I presume the same applies to bikes
Traders have to declare if a car has been written off as part of a sale, but private individuals do not. To help make sure you don’t get caught out paying over the odds, an HPI vehicle check will unearth if a car has been written off and into what category it was placed – and can be done for just a few pounds.
Fingers crossed he gives u a bit of £££ back but I guess he's not obliged too
Pardon the yank for a minute.. I realize this is Off topic to the thread but you guys are speaking English and it's confusing as wombles
HPI?
Written off I assume means an insurance write off? Cat C?D? means what? and why does it matter to the value of the bike... it runs and has bits of kit or it does not...or im missing something as it pertains to value of a "not Clear" "Cat C " bike.
Thanks for putting up with the Yank that only speaks english, Not ENGLISH
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HPI
is a check that you can have done on a vehicle (pronounced VEE HICK ILL in usa )to make sure that it was not in a accented then fixed up and put back on the road
or may be has a out standing debt against it
HPI check is for any outstanding finance on the bike (Hire Purchase) and any insurance categories associated with the bike.
From the web............
Considering buying a salvage motorcycle written-off and fixing it up ?
Tempting, if you are handy with the spanners. So what does "Category C total loss" mean....
Briefly:
Category A - Vehicle must be crushed. All of it.
Category B - Bike may not be returned to road. Parts may be sold.
Category C - Repairable. Possibly structural damage. Cost of damage (at main dealer prices and labour rates) is more than book value of bike.
Category D - Repairable. Probably non-structural damage. May have been economic to repair, but insurer doesn't want to.
Category F - Damaged by fire.
Category X - Repairable. Minor Damage.
In more detail:
Category A - May not be resold. Entire motorcycle must be crushed. Total burnout or flood damage (salt or foul water). Severely damaged with no serviceable parts, or already stripped out shell. DVLA require "Notification of Destruction".
Category B - Motorcycle itself may not be resold. Damaged beyond economical repair, usually with severe structural/frame damage. DVLA require "Notification of Destruction". Parts can be removed and sold.
Category C - Repairable salvage. Usually applies to motorcycles with significant frame damage, where cost of repairs exceeds book value. Can be sold complete to Motorcycle Trade or Public. Recorded as "Category C" at DVLA. Category C vehicles' V5 documents are returned to DVLA. You re-apply, to DVLA or at your local VRO, for registration on the original identity once you have fixed it up, MOTed it and want to Tax it. Re-registration removes the Category C classification, but evidence it was at one time Category C remains on the vehicle's record at DVLA (and HPI and AA and the others).
There is a difference between cars (and presumably vans, lorries, caravanettes..) and bikes when re-registering. Motorcycles do not need a VIC inspection, cars do. Cars (and vans...) sold for repair but must now have VIC inspection before returning to the road.
VIC inspection - Straight from VOSA's web site "[The VIC] will involve comparing the vehicle presented against information held by DVLA, such as the vehicle identification number, make, model, colour and engine number. The VIC will also compare the record of previous accident damage with evidence of damage repair as well as checking other components to confirm the age and identity of the vehicle."
Officially, the VIC does not check roadworthiness. If any significant defects are present, they can prevent it being used, but it is not a check of vehicle condition or roadworthiness. VIC tets centres in major towns, list on VOSA's site. It costs £35 (early 2005).
Motorcycles do not need this VIC inspection. (Lets not get into whether this is a good or bad thing - you probably have a view somewhere between 'one less hoop to jump through' and 'so do they not care about stolen bikes being rung !'). Whatever, bikes do not need a VIC inspection.
It used to be unclear, but VOSA have re-written some of the pages on their web site. Some of their pages still say 'all vehicles', but some pages now say 'cars need....'. From 2 sources, we now have clear evidence of people being told, one in writing, that "Motorcycles do not come under the Vehicle Identity Check Scheme therefore your vehicle will not require one.".
Having said that, when you go to insure it, the Insurance Company will obviously know it was Category C, and may insist on an Engineer's Report on the quality of repairs and the roadworthiness of the vehicle. Some do, some don't.
Category D - Repairable salvage. Minimal damage, probably not structural, but insurer does not want to repair, even though it might be economic to do so. Often stolen and recovered after claim has been paid. Or for unusual models or grey imports where the difficulty of obtaining new parts hinders a quick repair. Does not need VIC inspection to return to road. Recorded with HPI, AA, and the like.
Category Theft - Reported stolen, and the insurance company has paid out, but nobody has found the bike yet. (Once it is found and taken to a salvage yard, it probably becomes Category D(or ABC...))
Category F - Damaged by fire. Should be repairable. If not safely repairable, it should be called Category A or B.
Category X - Insurance-speak for 'Not Recorded', but subject to some claim and sold on by them as repairable salvage. Not recorded on registers at HPI, AA, .. or known at DVLA. Very light damage, or vehicle is fairly new. Requires minimal repair work.
"not recorded" - Not an official category, this is what you may see in a private advert. Usually means the owner only had third party insurance and they stuffed it themselves, so can't claim for it. Naturally, they aren't telling their insurance company - and they haven't told DVLA, so it is not Recorded with them, or HPI et al. Might be a total wreck, might be fixable. Buying something like this, you are on your own, and you'd better know what you are doing mechanically.
This page is only a summary of the regulations and not a definitive statement of law. For the full story, see VOSA. This is the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency, formerly known as the Vehicle Inspectorate.
I find 9 times out of 10 these kind of people are little slimy worms when it comes down to it and will soon do the right thing once they realise they don't have the upper-hand. The other option is to keep pestering them until they get bored, phone calls, email etc, nag him like a woman and hopefully he'll give in a cough up just to get rid of you.
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