Fork brace and seal leaks

[E.Marquez]

NOTE: For those of you on this site as well as the US one, yes this is a duplicate thread...Wanted a wider audience so posted to both.

Thanks


Looking for input from those that have a fork brace on the OEM forks.

Are you having seal leakage problems?

I have a second seal leak in 12 months after the forks were professionally gone though (and that work quality is not in question at all, yes Im sure)
So they started fresh, had a right leg leak, disassembled, cleaned, checked for run out on the stanchion, and any damage..CLEAN as can be. Did NOT do both fork legs.
New OEM seals, bushings looked to have minimal wear so did not replace.

Few months later, now I have a left leg seal leak.
It'll come apart tonight.. Im betting i find the same thing, no leg damage, straight tube. Crap in the seal.
I've tried the old wipe the seal clean with film negative trick (well I used the motion Pro tool for this) It does pull out some debris, but the leak continues.

I theorized it might be dried bug guts on the tube damaging the seals.. But was advised while it might cause a leak due to crap in the seal, bug guts would not likely damage the seal.

I do not have the OEM "guards" installed. at this time.. Ordered some carbon fiber tube and will make/install some.

It was suggested that the fork brace may be causing the leak.//// I don't think so, but it's a reasonable concern.
I see no weird wear pattern on the bushings as if the leg is being deformed or forks out of alignment (twisted) or being forced to travel in a non linear manner.

But so is it the fork brace? Is it just crap getting in the seals (that means stuff getting past the dust wiper as well)
Is it something else or just, seals leaking.... due to use (only about 8k miles since full rebuild where the seals were not replaced,, they were less than a year old at that time and the suspension builder said they looked good. I trust his judgment.

In goes some SKF seals...tonight, fresh oil, new upper and lower bushings... What i need to decide is, reinstall the brace or not....

[tony.mon]

Depends how you fit the brace.
Ideally you start at the top, or bottom, and tighten that one, then the next one down (lower clamp), then the brace.
Give it a wiggle and pump the forks up and down between each set.
That way you can be as sure as is possible that the forks are parallel and aren't pulling or pushing the fork leg onto the seal at one point.

How about making sure that you have exactly the same oil height in each?
Different heights will try to twist the spindle as you brake hard or go over potholes.

Lastly, are you using genuine Honda seals?
We had a poor batch in the UK a while back, and they didn't last very long. For the cost, genuine ones might as well go in.

[Jamoi]

I'm running a Coerce brace, had no issues after 15k miles.

Just wondering if you've seen Hawk's write up?

http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=28970

[E.Marquez]

Depends how you fit the brace.
Ideally you start at the top, or bottom, and tighten that one, then the next one down (lower clamp), then the brace.
Give it a wiggle and pump the forks up and down between each set.
That way you can be as sure as is possible that the forks are parallel and aren't pulling or pushing the fork leg onto the seal at one point.

How about making sure that you have exactly the same oil height in each?
Different heights will try to twist the spindle as you brake hard or go over potholes.

Lastly, are you using genuine Honda seals?
We had a poor batch in the UK a while back, and they didn't last very long. For the cost, genuine ones might as well go in.

For the sake of discussion lets say the brace is installed correctly. I've installed them on dozens of bikes, and many of though removed and reinstalled over time dozens of times. Im pretty confident on my install process and never seen binding, increased stiction, or abnormal wear post install and use.

Not saying it CANT be the install on this one, but it's just not very likely. That said i will double, nay...triple check the next install .. brace fasteners torque, leg height in the triple clamps, twist and brace install height relative to the fork leg slider.

Its a good point and one I can not overlook as part of the diag....

[E.Marquez]

I'm running a Coerce brace, had no issues after 15k miles.

Just wondering if you've seen Hawk's write up?

http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=28970

Yes thanks, it's well written, and a great way to install the brace. But nothing I have not been doing since about 1984. So I think I have the install covered.

[E.Marquez]

Depends how you fit the brace.
Ideally you start at the top, or bottom, and tighten that one, then the next one down (lower clamp), then the brace.
Give it a wiggle and pump the forks up and down between each set.
That way you can be as sure as is possible that the forks are parallel and aren't pulling or pushing the fork leg onto the seal at one point.

How about making sure that you have exactly the same oil height in each?
Different heights will try to twist the spindle as you brake hard or go over potholes.

Lastly, are you using genuine Honda seals?
We had a poor batch in the UK a while back, and they didn't last very long. For the cost, genuine ones might as well go in.

OEM seals always (until this time and I'm using the well respected SKF seals that many rave about)
Oil height is spot on even, I use a suction tool and fixed length tube to ensure they are perfectly even at the specified height. .

[E.Marquez]

Hmmm, random thought... I'll section the old seal and look at the sealing lip under magnification. If the seal lip is chewed up vs worn away in a specific section that would lead me to dibires damaging the seal over abnormal wear caused by brace install////////I THINK

[Jamoi]

Yes thanks, it's well written, and a great way to install the brace. But nothing I have not been doing since about 1984. So I think I have the install covered.

Fair do's, just a thought.

[VTRDark]

Seems odd. I would have thought that it's most likely a dodgy batch of seals. It would have to be a serious amount of grit getting in over time to make them leak and like you say it's got to get past the dust seal first which is the most likely area to get a bit of grit trapped. Wouldn't you also see a bit of scoring on the stanchion too if that bad

You could give the HRC seals a go which IIRC have an extra coiled wire wrapped around inside of them to help prevent leakage. I have had mine fitted a couple of years now with no issues and I too also don't have the fork protectors on. As for the brace I can't really comment on that as I have not had much experience with them. But my first thought there is, that you would have to pretty much bottom out for the brace to hit the top of the fork lower/seal area.

(:-})

[sirch345]

I do not have the OEM "guards" installed. at this time.. Ordered some carbon fiber tube and will make/install some.

May be those little guards give more protection than we realise. You know what Honda are like when it comes to R&D.

I agree, it sounds more like a seal problem as others have suggested, rather than a mechanical problem seeing as it's not the same side that is failing.

Chris.

[E.Marquez]

I do not have the OEM "guards" installed. at this time.. Ordered some carbon fiber tube and will make/install some.

May be those little guards give more protection than we realise. You know what Honda are like when it comes to R&D.

I agree, it sounds more like a seal problem as others have suggested, rather than a mechanical problem seeing as it's not the same side that is failing.

Chris.

Thats my thought as well...but I fully realize what happens when you assume and not thoroughly diagnose a problem, considering all possibilities.

Two seals in 12 months, one on each leg.....thats not unheard of....and they had been reused once (were all but brand new at that point)

So new seals, bushings and fluid it is, we will see what happens now. Summer is fast approaching, lots of miles and smiles ahead.

[sirch345]

Thats my thought as well...but I fully realize what happens when you assume and not thoroughly diagnose a problem, considering all possibilities.

You're not wrong there well worth considering any possibilities.

Two seals in 12 months, one on each leg.....thats not unheard of....and they had been reused once (were all but brand new at that point)

Yes I agree, not a big problem, but of course conditions and the amount of miles done in that 12 months needs to be taken into consideration. Where I live here in the UK we only really get bugs being spattered on your bike in a hot summer, which for a lot of summers we don't have that problem, or if we do it's relatively short lived. Although last year the summer was an exception, it was amazing

So new seals, bushings and fluid it is, we will see what happens now. Summer is fast approaching, lots of miles and smiles ahead.

Personally I would say renewing both fork leg seals at the same time is the way to go. Good luck with it, hopefully this time they will be okay,

Chris.