RC51/VFR400 brake upgrade

[xxxrated]

just finished my brake upgrade after spending forever bleeding the things at the moment i have braided lines, RC51 calipers, EBC HH sintered pads and VFR400 discs. havent got round to sourcing an RC51 master cylinder yet but will do soon.
ive found the VFR400 discs to be a better upgrade than stock as they have a lot more venting and because of this they are a fair bit lighter. i think its around 100g a disc. the calipers need a bit of grinding aswell to fit but its not much and only takes about 30 minutes once you know what your doing.
havent been able to take the bike out yet as i havent got an allen key big enough to tighten the caliper bolts so im going to have to take a nice slow ride to the garage tomorow to borrow theirs. hoping for big improvements oncve the master cylinder is fitted

[slim_boy_fat]

just finished my brake upgrade after spending forever bleeding the things at the moment i have braided lines, RC51 calipers, EBC HH sintered pads and VFR400 discs. havent got round to sourcing an RC51 master cylinder yet but will do soon.
ive found the VFR400 discs to be a better upgrade than stock as they have a lot more venting and because of this they are a fair bit lighter. i think its around 100g a disc. the calipers need a bit of grinding aswell to fit but its not much and only takes about 30 minutes once you know what your doing.

More holes mean less disk area for the pads to grip. Not sure the disk change is a suitable upgrade for a bike that is 30kgs heavier than the VFR400

100g weight saving, you must be a much better rider than me to notice that...

Each to there own..

[xxxrated]

the VFR/RVF400 both use the same diameter discs and the same calipers as the firestorm
as for the holes i have been told by a few people that the extra holes help to produce more friction on the pad resulting in greater stopping power, that is the theory behind wavy discs.
as for 100g a disc i probably wont noticce it but the fact that the discs are the same price as VTR ones whats the point in going for the heavier option, no point in being narrow minded about things like this

[Zer0Zer0]

True True, and any "upgrade" on a stock item, must therefor be better.and more suitable for the intended application...dosent "more" holes on the surface area mean more efficient cooling, which in turn allows more friction between pad and disc, therefor better braking??

[xxxrated]

True True, and any "upgrade" on a stock item, must therefor be better.and more suitable for the intended application...dosent "more" holes on the surface area mean more efficient cooling, which in turn allows more friction between pad and disc, therefor better braking??

that is what what im under the assumption of

[yellafella]

And less chance of the discs warping !

[iggy1966]

I suppose the best way to find out is to ride the bike and see how it performs, Let us know what you find XXXrated

[slim_boy_fat]

the VFR/RVF400 both use the same diameter discs and the same calipers as the firestorm
as for the holes i have been told by a few people that the extra holes help to produce more friction on the pad resulting in greater stopping power, that is the theory behind wavy discs.
as for 100g a disc i probably wont noticce it but the fact that the discs are the same price as VTR ones whats the point in going for the heavier option, no point in being narrow minded about things like this

Not being narrow minded, being an enginer i tend to think about how things work rather than jumping on a particular band wagon.

A couple of points, the holes in the disk help clear water when braking, motorcycle brake disks generally are well exposed to the air and cooling is not a serious issue.

Good fluid, HH sintere pads and s/s hoses are all good brake upgrades, i am just not convinced using diskes that are designe for a bike with 30kgs less weight and 50bhp less is an upgrade, moer like downgrade.

Wavy disks are different in finction to the drilled disks.

Besides i am not convinced that the storm needs better brakes othe then the pad,fluid/hoses upgrade, i suppose unless you are doing a lot of trake days.

I am pretty sure you could lock the front wheel up using the standard brakes and on the road you cant use much more power than that.

All in my opinion of courses, which like on any forum means bugger all.

[Stormin Ben]

Nicely put Slim,

I've got braided hoses, fresh fluid, regularly cleaned calipers and Carbone Lorraine A3 pads
The stopping is
one finger - reasonable
two finger - brick wall
four finger - n/a coz my brake lever is a special shortie

Tried a mates bike with the master cylinder mod and wasn't sold.
Very little lever travel between off and full on so feel was lacking


To my mind the lack of disk material on the VFR disks would make me think less stopping power and also faster wear.
Also I seem to remember that disk pattern was prone to cracking between the holes on older disks

Be interested to hear how you get on though XXXrated


Ben

[Zer0Zer0]

not at all slim m8. if it wasnt for some of the more enlightened opinions on these boards i wouldnt have half the "upgrades" on my storm that i do have. and avoided others i might not have otherwise
as with all things .. what you choose to bolt to your bike is your own affair,.
and as you say in the opinion of some it might seem to be a waste of time and energy..im sure the engineers at Honda think the standard set up on the storm is just fine . the brakes as you say are powerful enough to lock up the front.. but the lack of progressiveness in Feel , and the Fade is pants filling , when you need to stop in a hurry, FEEL i think being of paramount importance, and knowing you wont have to bring the lever back to the grip. inspires confidence. surely the correctly sized disc. with the proper thickness
however light it is .would at the very least . reduce the centrifugal forces acting on a wheel improving the tip in..and give more responsive steering.?
how would fitting the discs from the 400 afect the braking characteristics of the storm? ..and if its a big No No. why do race teams fit mega light discs to 200bhp superbikes.. I know many of these teams use specialist equipment specifically designed for the bikes they run . but how does the lightness of the disc. matter are they made from different quality materiels? are the braking temperatures much different? .. I ask all these questions out of genuine interest..as im thnking of fitting "better" calipers and master cylinder.. i already have EBC wavy discs on the front. sintered pads and goodridge hoses. and the brakes on my storm ar far better than the originals ..but if i can stop sooner for a given speed . and save a little weight . im interested. in anyones opinion good or bad..

[xxxrated]

what master cylinder are you thinking of fitting zero, im trying to souce an rc51 1 for mine. as for the brakes i took the bike for a quick blast today but didnt really want to go overkill on the brakes as its all new components on it so i just want it all to bed in tidy. although i didnt anchor on the feel compared to the stock calipers is amazing, no other way to explain it really other than completely in control braking.
i didnt weigh the calipers either but im pretty sure they felt a fair bit lighter than the stock 1's so all in all id estimate ive knocked over 500g off the weight up front which can only be a good thing

[kevg]

My tuppence worth.

The disks being lighter would effect the steering because you have these things rotating and you have to turn them...gyroscopic effect.

therfore the lighter the better. less rotating mass to manhandle about.

more holes or wavey disks gives you more edges to wear the pads down, giving you a fresh breaking surface more often than standard... better braking force.

again a trade off, quick wear rate and better brakes that might not be necessary against slightly less breaking power and longer pad wear.

more holes to me looks like a more flimsy disk but like said previously unless your a track day god who is on the brakes every few seconds and heat loss and heat build up in the materials is going to be a concearn, i again don't think for road riding this really matters.

track and road are two entirely different beasts, we all want super fast track responsive handling bikes but they are not practical on the road, where motorways, and straights are common place.

just my say....................and sorry but just in from an afternoon in the pub and feeling like preaching to someone.

each to their own, if it feals right and doesn't break, it could be right.


views of another mecky engineer, puggled but happy.

[Zer0Zer0]

not that im after a road going track bike or anything .but my bike is kinda becomming an obsession... kinda.. I also am aware that its just one firestorm of many. but this one is mine.. everything ive had done to it has made it that little bit more unique in my eyes, and couldnt possibly be mistaken for anyone elses storm. i was chatting today to a couple of riders at the local showroom. one of them on a Repsol Blackbird, who said the attention i gave my bike bordered on Fanaticism, i had to agree .
i just cant help changing things on the bike. and i dont think i ve done it just to jump the flavour of the month bandwagon, I would like it to be similar to the Moriwaki firestorm up on ebay at the mo, that level of uniqeness i mean
I am not rich by anyones standard i work for a living . like most people. and im up to the eyeballs in debt.. like everyone else. im still paying off the cost of the work i had done at revoloution. i suppose ill keep chopping and changing bits. but probably wont be entirly satisfied.....EVER.!

tripleX m8 the master cylinder from an Sp1 or SP2 ...straight swap.... I think ill either change that OR the calipers, I think both would be a little ott
as kev and slim mentioned how much can you really put to use on the road in real terms? at legalish speeds anyway

[Seeker 77]

I am pretty sure you could lock the front wheel up using the standard brakes and on the road you cant use much more power than that.

Correct, did that twice, and really didn't find it at all amusing. Mods are good, they show initiative and thinking outside the box. I can see the merits in both arguments and indeed i changed the master cylinder and calipers on my old storm for those from a gixxer 600. The result was awesome and totally easy to perform.

Then i got fed up with the front end diving and the rather lazy steering and realised that the storm wasn't for me. Went for another VTR instead, but only so i could stay on the website and still fell 'legitimate'.

[xxxrated]

the SP will be my next toy. just need a couple more years NCB and a bigger bank balance