Charging problem

[malone]

hi everyone....I need a little bit of help with my charging problems.

Step 1 (14 days ago)
measured battery voltage (no engine running) to 12,7/12,8 volts - all okay
measured battery voltage (engine running) to as much as 17 volts - that's not good!!
changed the rectifier/regulator and measured 14,7/14,8 volts (engine running) - all okay

Step 2 (today)
The last two days I have been riding in fine weather without any problems - but this afternoon my ctek display went red and I could not start at all. Jumpstarted the bike and on my way home the lights, indicators or brakelight was hardly working.

connected my ctek charger and let it sit there for 4 hours
measured battery voltage (engine running) to 12,3 volts (turning on lights, brakelights, indicators measuring 11,9 volts) - damm!
disconnected the recifier/regulator and measured Ohm between the 4/5 connectors and it seems to be okay. (no cross measurements between the connectors)

Question:
How do I measure the output from the stator without breaking anything. Can it be done at the connector at the rectifier? and which cable color am I looking for?

Does anyone have a guide how to measuring the rectifier/regulator correctly? with expected Ohm measurements and which connectors to test?

thanks

Martin

[Wicky]

Procedure should be in the downloadable PDF Workshop manual in the Workshop Knowledgbase

or there's this from Carl > http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 31&t=28771

Seems like if you haven't done so already is replace the R/R (pronto esp if you have an early unfinned version) with either a finned upgraded R/R or even better still a MOSFET R/R.

Stators can go and they'll give a low output reading - You can visually check it (by taking off the engine cover) and if has black burnt windings then best replace.

edit missed the bit where you saiid you replaced R/R - as firestorm_al advised yup replace battery as well.

[firestorm_al]

hi everyone....I need a little bit of help with my charging problems.

Step 1 (14 days ago)
measured battery voltage (no engine running) to 12,7/12,8 volts - all okay
measured battery voltage (engine running) to as much as 17 volts - that's not good!!
changed the rectifier/regulator and measured 14,7/14,8 volts (engine running) - all okay

The 17 Volts has most likely cooked your battery and it can no longer be trusted to hold a voltage. As you have replaced the RR and the voltage looks healthy I would suggest that you get a new battery ASAP.

Al.

[malone]

.....think I will start looking for a burnt stator - if it looks okay follow cybercarl instructions and/or buy a new battery.

I have only used the bike 3 times since I replaced the rectifier....so it has max been running 80 miles


thanks for your help folks

[firestorm_al]

Check the resistances between all of the yellow wired on the connector to the RR. All of the readings should be consistent. Also check the resistance between the chassis/engine block and all of the yellow wires, all of those readings should be open circuit.

If all that checks out then your stator should be ok.

Al.

[malone]

...been thinking in my sleep and tried a few things this morning

The battery was charging during the night and I measured 12,7 volts at stilstand this morning. Cranking the engine and the battery voltage drops to 11,5/11,0 volts - and thats not good enough. With the engine running without lights I measured 12,7 Volts.

If it only a poor battery shouldent the stator/+RR deliver at least 14,5/14,7 Volts anyway? I don't think a new battery alone will solve this issuu or am I wrong here? Does the stator/RR detect a defective battery and lower the voltage?

[firestorm_al]

At idle you will probably get high 12's or low 13's from the RR and battery and that will drop with putting the lights on. With the standard RR unit you will need at least a couple of thousand rpm's to increase the voltage to the mid to high 13's. Hence why just starting the bike and leaving it idling won't charge the battery, you need to take it for a ride. If you rev the engine while measuring the voltage it should not read above 15V.

The voltage drop you get when cranking is all down to the battery. If it drops too low then the battery is not up to the job and you can risk damaging the starter clutch which will cost more than the price of a new battery (I can't remember what mechanisim the FireStorm has).

[malone]

been testing last night.....

removed the old battery and connected a well functioning car battery with extended cables. Measured voltage to aprox 13 volts. = ok (engine not running)
with engine running measuring aprox the same 13 volts = not ok
measured the stator resistance and visually inspected the stator - also did a leak to ground test. Everything ok!
all measurements have been done at idle and at 2000-5000 rpm

Last thing to test is the stator voltage out - haven't done it yet but I expect it to perfect.

I am still suspecting the regulator/rectifier for beeing defective again. Maybe I have its bought to cheap http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-HORNET- ... 1557444956?

Can anyone link to regulator/rectifier and I will buy a wellknown/updated/heavyduty item plus a new battery

thanks

Martin

[Wicky]

I am still suspecting the regulator/rectifier for beeing defective again. Maybe I have its bought to cheap http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-HORNET- ... 1557444956?

Cheapy chinese rip off


Go for a far better Mosfet R/R > http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 82#p351482

And this to tide you over > http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cbr125-r-cbr1 ... 2c99a57f90

Battery thread > http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... it=battery

[firestorm_al]

I recently upgraded the charging system on my Falco replacing the existing RR unit with a Shindengen FH020AA Mosfet RR (The older FH012AA & FH015AA units also work a treat - Yamaha R1 FJR, etc). I ran higher gauge wire directly to the battery through a 30A Maxi fuse bypassing the original wires and also cut back the stator wires and spliced on new 12 guage wiring to the new RR unit.

I did the same upgrade to my Monster last year and it eliminated all the charging issues (I did replace the battery on that at the same time though as it had been cooked by the original RR).

Before:-


You can see where the previous owner has bodged a "fix".

After:-



I need to do a full write up on the changeover but it is worth spending a bit of time and doing it properly.

Al.

[malone]

thanks for all your tips and tricks it's been the best help! and thank you for links and the good pictures.

measured the output voltage from the stator yesterday....same output on all 3 wires. Next is a new battery and think I will go for a Shindengen.

happy weekend

Martin

[darkember]

Talking rectifiers I have come across Mosfet Chinese ones from Hong Kong for £27.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOSFET-REGULA ... 33a01c38f0

Or does one go for something 2nd hand

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006-TRIUMPH- ... 1c46584e9e

All comments welcome it such a minefield out there.

[firestorm_al]

I would avoid the Chinese ones if I were you. If it looks too good to be true it probably is.

Triumph moved over to the better Mosfet units after having years of problems. My old Triumph TT600 went through 2 RR units 2 batteries and one stator before I got it running reliably (before I knew what I was doing).

If you do get a Triumph or Yamaha unit and you can't get hold of the loom side connectors then you can get a Triumph wiring harness (Triumph part No. T2500676) and splice that onto your stator wires and extend the 0V & 12V cables directly to the battery through a 30A fuse.

[lloydie]

I would avoid the Chinese ones if I were you. If it looks too good to be true it probably is.

Triumph moved over to the better Mosfet units after having years of problems. My old Triumph TT600 went through 2 RR units 2 batteries and one stator before I got it running reliably (before I knew what I was doing).

If you do get a Triumph or Yamaha unit and you can't get hold of the loom side connectors then you can get a Triumph wiring harness (Triumph part No. T2500676) and splice that onto your stator wires and extend the 0V & 12V cables directly to the battery through a 30A fuse.

Thank you for the part number as I'm looking to do the mosfet myself


Lube, no lube, it's your choice .

[darkember]

So would this one be in order i have already have the connection kit?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-R1-BIG ... 5b0e583c34