Roger Says...Wait he did?

[Wicky]

TFor me, the stopper mod was the perect answer, I was chuffed Alistair and some of the other lads did the mod for me at a workshop meet last year.

Scottish cheapskate engineering* - why buy a deluxe everlasting manual tensioer when a nail laying cut to about the right lenth with a nail clipper shoved into the existing tensioner will suffice.

*Scottish Haggis - random offal
English Sausage : Bit better quality random offal

[8541Hawk]

Actually No Mike its not about you Really Its about the hundreds of posts on this and the US site that cite Roger about ACCTs, and I cant find a single post from him talking about ACCTs

Sorry then... Really I just didn't want anything I have said to be taking as Roger said this or that.
Being that you did kind of read me the riot act yesterday and then this post, I did jump to conclusions that I shouldn't have.

As for why I'm going back to the autos. Now that I have actually looked at the cooling system, not just the line drawing in the manual. Having the cases split it becomes very clean why it is not good to start it on the side stand.
Of course this is all just the opinion of some guy in his shed but it makes sense to me.

Plus they are dynamic through the rev range, meaning the do move to keep constant tension on the cam chains. This gives more power through more consistent cam timing and is also easier on the cam chains with less power loss through drag. They do move, the how and why is again just my opinion.

So run which ever you like, just stand the bike up when you start it.

To keep things less controversial I'll write a separate thread on why it is not a good thing to warm up a VTR on the side stand, of course in my opinion.

[E.Marquez]

Sorry then... Really I just didn't want anything I have said to be taking as Roger said this or that.
Being that you did kind of read me the riot act yesterday and then this post, I did jump to conclusions that I shouldn't have.

As for why I'm going back to the autos. Now that I have actually looked at the cooling system, not just the line drawing in the manual. Having the cases split it becomes very clean why it is not good to start it on the side stand.
Of course this is all just the opinion of some guy in his shed but it makes sense to me.

All good bud,,,, Yes we disagree on heat being a causation... I may be wrong, but all I have is the testing Ive done that shows there is no localized heat to be an issue.
And the oil pressure deal on the side stand.,,,again, maybe, but not in my testing i did on just two basically stock motors, no cams, pistons, rods, oiling system mods.....and no fluctuation with pressure that I could measure with a digital gauge while idling and on side stand.

BUT This thread really was just what I said...for years I read about "Roger said" and when I looked, I could find nothing Roger said....

[8541Hawk]

Sorry then... Really I just didn't want anything I have said to be taking as Roger said this or that.
Being that you did kind of read me the riot act yesterday and then this post, I did jump to conclusions that I shouldn't have.

As for why I'm going back to the autos. Now that I have actually looked at the cooling system, not just the line drawing in the manual. Having the cases split it becomes very clean why it is not good to start it on the side stand.
Of course this is all just the opinion of some guy in his shed but it makes sense to me.

All good bud,,,, Yes we disagree on heat being a causation... I may be wrong, but all I have is the testing Ive done that shows there is no localized heat to be an issue.
And the oil pressure deal on the side stand.,,,again, maybe, but not in my testing i did on just two basically stock motors, no cams, pistons, rods, oiling system mods.....and no fluctuation with pressure that I could measure with a digital gauge while idling and on side stand.

BUT This thread really was just what I said...for years I read about "Roger said" and when I looked, I could find nothing Roger said....

No worries.... I'll use the "I'm in the process of quitting smoking " excuse...it can be a bit after all these years.....

[VTRDark]

I'm not sure if you guys seen this or not but Bleh one of of auto engineering students done a thorough investigation and write up on the ACCts. It's probably worth posting the link to the thread here.

Faulty CCT pics if you have them...

[AMCQ46]

TFor me, the stopper mod was the perect answer, I was chuffed Alistair and some of the other lads did the mod for me at a workshop meet last year.

Scottish cheapskate engineering* - why buy a deluxe everlasting manual tensioer when a nail laying cut to about the right lenth with a nail clipper shoved into the existing tensioner will suffice.

*Scottish Haggis - random offal
English Sausage : Bit better quality random offal

oi.... I resemble that remark

and what about Scottish square sausage? the optimum design to fit in a sandwich

yes as a Scot I like the solution that cost me nothing, and its a huge bonus that I believe the ACCT [if reliable] is designed to work with the engine ...... so is the better solution

[Roger Ditchfield]

Hi Guys,
Yesterday I posted a comprehensive reply on CCTs but it appears not have appeared on the post.
I am looking into the reason it has not appeared. Assuming this post appears then I will re-post my reply

[Roger Ditchfield]

Hi Guys
As my second post has appeared on the Forum I will post my contribution this evening

[podman]

TFor me, the stopper mod was the perect answer, I was chuffed Alistair and some of the other lads did the mod for me at a workshop meet last year.

Scottish cheapskate engineering* - why buy a deluxe everlasting manual tensioer when a nail laying cut to about the right lenth with a nail clipper shoved into the existing tensioner will suffice.

*Scottish Haggis - random offal
English Sausage : Bit better quality random offal

oi.... I resemble that remark

and what about Scottish square sausage? the optimum design to fit in a sandwich

yes as a Scot I like the solution that cost me nothing, and its a huge bonus that I believe the ACCT [if reliable] is designed to work with the engine ...... so is the better solution

It was a nice strong section of bolt not nail wasnt it Alisatir? Tell me it was!

I recently had some of those sausages in the faraway principality of ...Corby ...very nice indeed!....

[E.Marquez]

Hi Guys
As my second post has appeared on the Forum I will post my contribution this evening

Thank you in advance for your time

[Roger Ditchfield]

Hi Guys,
I have just written another comprehensive reply to the CCT question but for the second time it has failed to appear after I submitted it. My previous two short comments have appeared.
Please can someone tell me if there is a restriction on the size of a Post or could it have gone into a Draft box or similar??
Roger

[Wicky]

Weird - maybe the mere mention of Honda CCTs break the internet as well

Roger - I'll PM you my email address so if you send me your treatise I can post it on your behalf and see if I can replicate the problem - (maybe it contains certain rude key words!)

[kenmoore]

Crikey !

This is like something out of the X Files .

The man that we all want to hear from posts and it doesn't appear !

[sirch345]

Hi Guys,
I have just written another comprehensive reply to the CCT question but for the second time it has failed to appear after I submitted it. My previous two short comments have appeared.
Please can someone tell me if there is a restriction on the size of a Post or could it have gone into a Draft box or similar??
Roger

Good evening Roger, I hope you are keeping well.

There is a limit (or restriction as you put it) on the size of a post, the Maximum characters per post are 60,000, so I doubt very much you went over that
I'm not sure exactly what is going wrong with your postings, although it's extremely annoying when that happens, especially after you've spent time putting it altogether for it to disappear like that. I can't see how it can have gone into a draftbox or similar.

If you try again may I suggest you highlight it first so you can copy it before trying to post your reply so you don't lose it again, also you could try clicking the "preview button" after you've copied it to see if it will preview first.

Please lets us know if you're still having problems.


Kind regards,

Chris.

[Roger Ditchfield]

Hi Guys,
The question of CCTs is multi-faceted and complex one and sadly there are no definitive answers. Here are my experiences for what they are worth!
All the Revolution Racing VTR1000f Firestorms (ST2 and ST3 raced using OEM CCTs without issue. As they were being raced also under the banner of Honda Britain and partially supported by HRC it would have been impossible to change them for an aftermarket product but we have allowed to modify the OEM part had we found it necessary. It must be remembered the engines were all brand new and were rebuilt after every BSB Supercup weekend. Also the engines were fired with the bike standing level on front and rear stands and subjected to a twenty minute warm up procedure from cold whereas street bikes tend to be fired up on the sidestand while the rider puts on his helmet and gloves before driving off.
My workshop experience of street VTRs CCTs is extremely varied. The highest mileage I have had to CCT failure was 97,000 miles on a bike used every day by a London courier. The lowest was less than 30 miles on a bike that had been run from new for two days after it had been stored for three years. I have had failures at every mileage in between! Therefore mileage is not a factor but types and regularity of usage possibly may be. I am always an advocate of Preventative Maintenance but in the case of CCTs I cannot give any sort of replacement schedule based on mileage.
Although all the Revolution Racing bikes of other models (R1s, R6s, CBR 900s, CBR 600, GSXR 6s and GSXR 1000) raced under our own banner used Manual CCTs I never felt comfortable in recommended their use by DIY riders. The reasoning for this is that setting up is “by ear”, feel and experience and these qualities often in short supply by private riders. The long term and extensive damage that can be caused by incorrect adjustment often outweighs the damage caused by CCT failure in the majority of cases. All our MCCTs were adjusted before every track appearance.
It cannot be denied that there is an issue with some OEM CCTs I believe that the fear of it is greater than the reality and there are relatively few major engine failures due to CCTs. I am therefore generally in favour of retaining the CCTs on normal mileage street bikes.
I am really sorry that I cannot give more definitive or less controversial advice based on known facts instead of opinion.
Good Luck guys