Doom averted on squeaky rear end

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Wicky
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Doom averted on squeaky rear end

Post by Wicky »

*Warning graphic photos of Firestorm being dismembered*

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Following squeaks emanating from the rear end of my 97 Storm last week and heeding the good advice in the stickied rear suspension topic on the importance of not ignoring the problem- tools, roll ups and coffee were laid out in the back garden early this morning. What a fun day in the sun it has been, first making a superstand to hoik the rear end up so the swing arm and suspension could come apart.

Pretty straight forward apart from head scratching on how to get the top bolt of the rear spendie undone - tried poking spanners up and under into the frame and sub frame area trying to find an angle as if I was indulging in a heady mix of Kama Sutra and Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Mechanics - thankfully a eureka moment came before I hurt myself and I undid the protruding nut on the tank bracket to drop the whole lot. phew!

Everything came apart from some super seized bolts on the back off the engine brackets (see gallery) and the one connecting the linkage onto the swingarm - Any tips before I seek either a big honda hammer or professional assistance, which will be tricky as while the swing arm (and linkage) is transportable, the jammed bolts on the back of the engine are problematic as the bike isn't capable of rolling anywhere.

Just in case it gets messy and destructive has anyone got no.9 linkage arm / no.7 linkage plates going spare?

The sets of roller bearings I could get at were fine and are now greased up, and the leaky clutch slave seal was a doddle to fix but looks like a week or two of the road just as the summer has turned up late :-(
Last edited by Wicky on Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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bikermike1411
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Post by bikermike1411 »

nice one mate! Impressed with your carpentry as much as your spannering! :lol: :wink:

The photo's are ace - i've loads from my rebuild. They mean sod all to anyone else, but they're invaluable when it comes to bolting it all back together!

I use a brass clothes brush and petrol to remove stubborn shite - just don't get any petrol in/on any bearings (it strips the grease instantly) or on any rubber seals (some balloon up like a jelly baby in water).

Incidently, have you ever tried putting a jelly baby in a saucer of water and leaving it for a while? Its ace! :D
Perseverance takes too long....
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RedStormV
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Re: Doom averted on squeaky rear end

Post by RedStormV »

Wicky wrote: Everything came apart from some super seized bolts on the back off the engine brackets (see gallery) and the one connecting the linkage onto the swingarm - Any tips before I seek either a big honda hammer or professional assistance, which will be tricky as while the swing arm (and linkage) is transportable, the jammed bolts on the back of the engine are problematic as the bike isn't capable of rolling anywhere.
An overnight soak blathered in WD-40 or other preparatory releasing agent.

Try them again.

A copper/hide and/or nylon mallet (hammer) failing that a good sized hammer and sturdy piece of wood so as not to damage head / threads.

If attacking from thread end, put nut over end of thread to protect it just in case.

If that still don't shift them, then you'll need a heat source, like oxy/acetylene or butane/propane blow lamp, or even a hot air paint stripper will do, just takes a little longer.

Heat up the bolt and casing as evenly as possible be very very careful if using oxy as aluminium has a nasty tendancy to give bugger all warning before turning from a solid to a liquid 8O .

When good and hot, get a socket on bolt and a good long tube on ratchet for more leverage (if you don't have a long racthet). If not the bolt end, then hammer / wood or mallet option as above.

Give it another go - you'll probably hear a loud crack as the oxidisation between the steel bolts and alu casing gives way 'et voila'.

*NB* do not, under any circumstances cool the casings or bolts with water or anything, other than air and time. Cooling metals too quickly alters the molecualr structure and can cause them to be weaker than they should be.

Clean all the bolts up with a wire brush and add some 'copper slip' (copper grease) before replacing them in the engine / casing. This will prevent the oxidisation from occuring again.

*

When I wanted to fit the R&G crash bungs to mine, both myself and 'larger' mate swung on the full width engine bolt after leaving overnight soaked in releasing agent, with bugger all success.

Using Oxy we heated the end of the engine bolt up from both sides cos that's all we could get to.
Presumably the heat was conducted down the length of the bolt and dissipated into the casing mounts.
When we tried it again there was an almighty 'Crack' and hey presto, the bolt turned.
A little persuasion with a nylon mallet and a drift (when the end of bolt disappeared beyond frame) and it came out fine!

[edit]
As BikerPiker has said below, I only ever use single hex sockets if I have them. Sorry, made assumption that you'd know to do that already.

You might invest in one of these babies sometime ....

Gator Grip Sockets

I bought one for father in law a few years ago, works a treat on 'turned' or mis-shaped sockets and bolts.

Another, more expensive option would be sockets that apply the pressure on the flats, not the corners of the nut / bolt - I think original makers name was METRINCH but other companies do them too now.
Pretty sure Bergen do similar idea on their sockets. Mate in engineering / engine reconditioners reckons they don't touch Snap-on any more in favour of Bergen tools. Cheaper and just as good / better.
[edit]



HTH

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Oh dear .......... It's still running fine :D

*

Rossi, really messes with your mind!!!!! Muaahahahaha

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Last edited by RedStormV on Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:02 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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fishface
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Post by fishface »

for a bit more leverage i use a 3ft long scaffold tube :wink:
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bikerpiker
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Post by bikerpiker »

RSV covered it perfectly ,the only thing i'd say is use 6-point sockets,rather than 12-point,more so if the corners of the nuts/bolts arent too good.

I had of problem when working on my brake calipers on the car, bloody socket kept slipping off a bolt head ,the bolt-head was smaller thickness than normal,prob only around 3-4mm thick, i thought i was going to have to weld a fresh nut on to it to enable the socket to get a grip.

Was telling my dad on the phone aboot my plight ,straight away he said to use a socket with 6 sides, sure enough,thats what i did,out it came,,......unbelievable,yet so simple :oops: :!: :!:

It's a lesson i wont forget :!:


UPDATE.. I wondered why you would use one type over another so googled it....basically you can get more pressure on with a 6-point ,but a 12 point has more starting positions when working in a very confined space :!:
Last edited by bikerpiker on Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Wicky
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Post by Wicky »

Cheers everyone for all your advice

Will go shopping for some half inch impact sockets and a bit of extra help with a longer breaker bar to go with the propane flame thower....

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... socket-set

The stubbornness of the seizure I think shows various linkages must have been seized for a lot longer than before the squeaks alerted me.

Enquiry off to http://www.bikebearings.co.uk/ to see how much their bearings are compared to Hondas.
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RedStormV
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Post by RedStormV »

I don't suppose you're close enough to get to Rufforth (near York) next Saturday for the autojumble?

You'd be able to pick up just about anything you need in the tool line.

Alternaively, is there any forum members near you who may have a good selection of tools?
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sirch345
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Post by sirch345 »

Wicky,

The main thing is you're doing the maintenance now before anything serious/disastrous happens :!:

RSV has covered it really, so good luck with it :!:

I think you'll be pleased with the results once you've completed the job and take it for a ride :!:

I like you ingenious gantry for supporting the rear end of you bike :D Well thought out 8)

Chris.
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Wicky
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Post by Wicky »

Hunted round for the METRINCH sockets and found em here - so will splash out on either the most used sockets sizes or a socket rail set

http://www.imperial-tool.ltd.uk/store/c ... ategory=28

Latest update - after copious soaking in WD40, and with a few taps, the allen bolt attaching the spendie link arm into the brackets onto the back of the engine came free. What occurs is a spot of corrosion on the bolt seizing in the collar, so a light rub down with wetndry, regrease the whole lot and viloa

The last allen bolt attaching the plate link on the swing arm is rock solid- though the plate rotates revealing what feels and sounds like bearings on their last legs. so I'll be taking that away to be disassembled and refitted with new bearings etc.

Bearings and dust seals ordered from http://www.bikebearings.co.uk, plus a new bolt and collar from DS

Cost £26 so far (not inc WD40)
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gilson
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Post by gilson »

and I undid the protruding nut on the tank bracket to drop the whole lot. phew!
I've undone the tank bolts but it still seems very difficult. How the hell do you get to that top bolt?
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Wicky
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Post by Wicky »

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I just undid the top shock mounting bracket bolt no. 16

accessing no.13 seemed impossible with the rear cylinder rudely hogging spanner space

No.11 is my arch enemy :evil:
Last edited by Wicky on Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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gilson
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Post by gilson »

Super thanks! I didn't even see No. 16! He's now mine! Mwaaa ha haaaa
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Wicky
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Post by Wicky »

Yipee! All back together and running with a much improved floaty feeling rear end and unleaky clutch. £40 to have the dealers remove the seized linkage bolt and install the new bearings - Offset by them trying to tempt me into a rash purchase by starting up one of the new Ducati V4s with dubious silencing (yours for only £40 thou with free servicing thrown in !!!)

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Feeling fitter after all the cycling but once all the components (inc Ohlins shock bought on eblag two years ago) and a rare sunny day came together it only took 5 hours to slap it all back together with lashings of grease.

Scary moment when the swing arm didn't seem right when trying to fit exhausts as the mount fittings below the left footpeg didn't have enough room for the inside nut. With visions of taking everything apart it dawned on me the left footpeg hanger was bent (a sunny day topple on squidgy tarmac - thankfully there was nice soft car to take the brunt... )

With a bit of friendly persuasion I levered the hanger away only to hear and see a crack BUGGER! should been more patient and heated it first. Oh well at least it should last a couple of weeks till pay day and be easy to pop off and replace with a second hand one.

Thanks everyone for all the helpful advice and virtual support

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Last edited by Wicky on Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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RedStormV
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Post by RedStormV »

Wicky wrote:accessing no.13 seemed impossible with the rear cylinder rudely hogging spanner space
Why did you want to undo it? just undoing nut at top (16?) would release it when the linkage at bottom was dropped.

Incidentally, can't remember whether you mentioned removing tank to access 16? or not. not necessary, just remove the rear tank mounting bolt (8mm I think) prop rear end of tank up a little and Robert is your Fathers brother.

BTW Bergen do do sockets that exert the pressure on the flat of the nut/bolt (checked while I was at Rufforth last Saturday) and they're cheaper than Metrinch ones while still being very good quality.

Easy way to check is that the sockets are not sharp points in the corners, more of a radius.

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Great job though matey,

Thought I was seeing double for a moment 8O

Were it not for the dark tint DB and the aftermarket shock it'd look identical to mine from a distance, even with the Bagster cover!

So you going to clean and lube your chain too now? :wink:

Graeme
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Wicky
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Post by Wicky »

The Haynes manual for some bizarre reason has a description ond picture of undoing 13 in situ... :roll: Chapter 6-19

Possibly following the same pic and description in the Honda Service Manual PDF Chapter 14-9
Why did you want to undo it? just undoing nut at top (16?) would release it when the linkage at bottom was dropped.


Thankfully common sense prevailed :wink:

bah Nowt wrong with my squeaky clean chain that a quick spray of gold paint wouldn't fix

Next up will be attacking the steering head bearings armed only with a toothpick...

ps here's the offending bolt and collar in all their corroded glory plus what's left of the bearings

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Last edited by Wicky on Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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